If it were only that simple Ward. It is not.
Uh folks keep in mind most of the CIA's budget is classified. The public
part that is available is for things like paper clips, etc. It will not
take long before the $200 million that we know about goes to the paper
clip budget and then who knows where the part we are not told about
(it's "classified") goes?
This type of information should not be in the hands of the government.
Our government has shown that it will abuse the information it already
collects (employees at the IRS use tax return information for their own
gain, etc. there are many mis-uses on record that can be listed)
regardless of which major party is in office. I find it very odd that
right now the only folks who seem to be trying the protect American
ideals and citizens is the CIA (folks we hire to spy on others).
Have you forgotten that the Nazi party began collecting this type of
information about citizens before they began doing what they did?
The needs of the many are for the freedoms that we have had. The needs
ot the few are to control those freedoms so that they can stay in power.
I am very sure that the folks that put the list of freedoms together for
us knew what they were doing. After all, they got to see the horror of a
prolonged war on AMERICAN soil first hand. Was it not that very gang
that said something along the lines of "those that would trade freedom
for security deserve neither". I think they fully understood what is at
stake here.
Giving the government this power will not protect us more. (As the NRA
likes to say, 'we already have existing laws that deal with this, why do
we need more?'). All this will do is open a new threat to us, this one
from within.
Jerry
On Tuesday, November 19, 2002, at 02:18 PM, Ward Oldham wrote:
> Well, having a history on this listserve of being potentially the most
> offensive when it comes to political issues, I should just shut
> up . . . But
> I can't!
>
> I cherish my privacy more than the average bear. I don't want anybody
> reading my mail, email, knowing my finances, seeing my tax return. When
> people ask how much I make because they need the info. for their
> application
> or survey, I tell them it's none of their business!
>
> With that said, we probably all recognize that our world will never be
> the
> same. We haven't had a threat in our community, yet. Because of that,
> there
> will be many folks out there who are against any change at all because
> it
> infringes upon their constitutional rights. I feel the same way. The
> bottom line is it hasn't hit close enough to home yet for us to feel the
> sting and why change the rules if we haven't been hurt.
>
> I always think back to an old Star Trek movie where Spock is dying
> because
> he sacrificed himself to save the ship and the crew. It depicted the
> philosophy "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."
>
> The time may be growing near when we have to be willing to sacrifice a
> little of our privacy in an effort to prevent potential harm that may
> affect
> many others than just ourselves.
>
> Ward Oldham
>
>
>
> On 11/19/02 12:00 PM, "David Dudine" <ddudine at psci.net> wrote:
>
>> Dear Group,
>>
>> Lee has given me permission to post this from conservative William
>> Safire.
>>
>> If you do not want the government watching your internet activity and
>> reading your email, you should contact your Senators IMMEDIATELY and
>> voice
>> your opposition. It is being rammed through by Bush as you read this.
>>
>> David Dudine
>>
>> ..........................
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> New York Times, November 14, 2002: Opinion
>>
>> You Are a Suspect
>>
>> By WILLIAM SAFIRE
>>
>>
>> WASHINGTON ? If the Homeland Security Act is not amended before
>> passage,
>> here is what will happen to you:
>>
>> Every purchase you make with a credit card, every magazine
>> subscription you
>> buy and medical prescription you fill, every Web site you visit and
>> e-mail
>> you send or receive, every academic grade you receive, every bank
>> deposit
>> you make, every trip you book and every event you attend ? all these
>> transactions and communications will go into what the Defense
>> Department
>> describes as "a virtual, centralized grand database."
>>
>> To this computerized dossier on your private life from commercial
>> sources,
>> add every piece of information that government has about you ? passport
>> application, driver's license and bridge toll records, judicial and
>> divorce
>> records, complaints from nosy neighbors to the F.B.I., your lifetime
>> paper
>> trail plus the latest hidden camera surveillance ? and you have the
>> supersnoop's dream: a "Total Information Awareness" about every U.S.
>> citizen.
>>
>> This is not some far-out Orwellian scenario. It is what will happen to
>> your
>> personal freedom in the next few weeks if John Poindexter gets the
>> unprecedented power he seeks.
>>
>> Remember Poindexter? Brilliant man, first in his class at the Naval
>> Academy, later earned a doctorate in physics, rose to national security
>> adviser under President Ronald Reagan. He had this brilliant idea of
>> secretly selling missiles to Iran to pay ransom for hostages, and with
>> the
>> illicit proceeds to illegally support contras in Nicaragua.
>>
>> A jury convicted Poindexter in 1990 on five felony counts of misleading
>> Congress and making false statements, but an appeals court overturned
>> the
>> verdict because Congress had given him immunity for his testimony. He
>> famously asserted, "The buck stops here," arguing that the White House
>> staff, and not the president, was responsible for fateful decisions
>> that
>> might prove embarrassing.
>>
>> This ring-knocking master of deceit is back again with a plan even more
>> scandalous than Iran-contra. He heads the "Information Awareness
>> Office" in
>> the otherwise excellent Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency,
>> which
>> spawned the Internet and stealth aircraft technology. Poindexter is now
>> realizing his 20-year dream: getting the "data-mining" power to snoop
>> on
>> every public and private act of every American.
>>
>> Even the hastily passed U.S.A. Patriot Act, which widened the scope of
>> the
>> Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act and weakened 15 privacy laws,
>> raised
>> requirements for the government to report secret eavesdropping to
>> Congress
>> and the courts. But Poindexter's assault on individual privacy rides
>> roughshod over such oversight.
>>
>> He is determined to break down the wall between commercial snooping and
>> secret government intrusion. The disgraced admiral dismisses such
>> necessary
>> differentiation as bureaucratic "stovepiping." And he has been given a
>> $200
>> million budget to create computer dossiers on 300 million Americans.
>>
>> When George W. Bush was running for president, he stood foursquare in
>> defense of each person's medical, financial and communications
>> privacy. But
>> Poindexter, whose contempt for the restraints of oversight drew the
>> Reagan
>> administration into its most serious blunder, is still operating on the
>> presumption that on such a sweeping theft of privacy rights, the buck
>> ends
>> with him and not with the president.
>>
>> This time, however, he has been seizing power in the open. In the past
>> week
>> John Markoff of The Times, followed by Robert O'Harrow of The
>> Washington
>> Post, have revealed the extent of Poindexter's operation, but
>> editorialists
>> have not grasped its undermining of the Freedom of Information Act.
>>
>> Political awareness can overcome "Total Information Awareness," the
>> combined force of commercial and government snooping. In a similar
>> overreach, Attorney General Ashcroft tried his Terrorism Information
>> and
>> Prevention System (TIPS), but public outrage at the use of gossips and
>> postal workers as snoops caused the House to shoot it down. The Senate
>> should now do the same to this other exploitation of fear.
>>
>> The Latin motto over Poindexter"s new Pentagon office reads "Scientia
>> Est
>> Potentia" ? "knowledge is power." Exactly: the government's infinite
>> knowledge about you is its power over you. "We're just as concerned as
>> the
>> next person with protecting privacy," this brilliant mind blandly
>> assured
>> The Post. A jury found he spoke falsely before.
>>
>> .???`?.? ><((((?> .???`?.??.???`?.? <?))))>< ,.???`?.?.???`?.? ><((((?>
>> ?.???`?..???`?.? ><((((?> .???`?.??.???`?.?.?.?.???`?.? ><((((?>
>> .???`?.??.???`?.? <?))))>< .???`?.?.???`?.? ><((((?> ?.???`?..???`?.?
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------
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>> 1st month Free!
>> Sign up today at: www.netzerolongdistance.com
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The next meeting of the Louisville Computer Society will be November 26
>> For more information, see <http://www.aye.net/~lcs>. A calendar of
>> activities is at <http://www.calsnet.net/macusers>.
>>
>
>
> The next meeting of the Louisville Computer Society will be November 26
> For more information, see <http://www.aye.net/~lcs>. A calendar of
> activities is at <http://www.calsnet.net/macusers>.
>
>
>
>
The next meeting of the Louisville Computer Society will be November 26
For more information, see <http://www.aye.net/~lcs>. A calendar of
activities is at <http://www.calsnet.net/macusers>.
