Thanks for the answer, but it’s the orientation bit i don’t understand and that’s why i twist my arm in awkward directions, I’m not sure of what the app means by so and so many degrees in either direction, should i turn the phone or only move it to the side? Sometimes it feels like whatever i do it turns out i have the same rotation. /Krister
> 21 sep 2014 kl. 17:12 skrev Rachel Feinberg <walksi...@gmail.com>: > > Hi Krister, > > If you hold the phone 8-10 inches (20-25 CM) above the document, making sure > the camera is centered above it, then you should get fairly accurate results. > This is where the field of view report, and the tilt guidance come in > extremely handy! > You don't need to turn your arm at awkward angles, if anything, you may need > to raise, or lower the phone, move it backwards, or forwards, but nothing > unnatural. Also, Make sure the phone has the same orientation as the document > (portrait or landscape), and let the built-in guidance features help you > orient the last bit if needed. > HTH, > Rachel. > On 9/21/2014 2:07 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: >> I’ve never found out what to turn and how, i lose edges when i turn and get >> muscle ache from holding my hand in strange angles.:-) No, the clock >> orientation thingy isn’t something i understand, but then i am a bear with a >> very, very, vary little brain. >> /Krister >> >>> 21 sep 2014 kl. 00:07 skrev Jenine Stanley <dragonwalke...@gmail.com >>> <mailto:dragonwalke...@gmail.com>>: >>> >>> I’ve had the phone turned up to 18 degrees off center and it’s worked just >>> fine so I think it really depends on the clarity of text. >>> Jenine Stanley >>> dragonwalke...@gmail.com <mailto:dragonwalke...@gmail.com> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sep 20, 2014, at 5:09 PM, Anders Holmberg <and...@pipkrokodil.se >>> <mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi! >>>> So you have to have the phone or paper in the right clock direction. >>>> It can't turn the page virtually in the app. >>>> /A >>>> 20 sep 2014 kl. 23:03 skrev Jenine Stanley <dragonwalke...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:dragonwalke...@gmail.com>>: >>>> >>>>> GiGi, that’s the beauty of the tilt function. I’m usually fairly good at >>>>> balancing the phone but if I do more than one scan of something in the >>>>> same spot, such as just moving another piece of mail under it, I tend to >>>>> tip the phone. >>>>> >>>>> The thing that confuses me at times is the clock face orientation. I have >>>>> to tell myself that it is reporting the position of the material under >>>>> the phone and that I should turn the phone in that direction until it >>>>> says 0. For some weird reason my brain conjured that this was the >>>>> orientation of the phone itself when looking at the image and that I must >>>>> turn the phone in the opposite direction to reorient. Where that came >>>>> from I have no idea. 😣 >>>>> Jenine Stanley >>>>> dragonwalke...@gmail.com <mailto:dragonwalke...@gmail.com> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 20, 2014, at 4:59 PM, Eugenia Firth <gigifi...@me.com >>>>> <mailto:gigifi...@me.com>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi there >>>>>> Well lazy me did something else. I put my Mac on my lap and shut it, and >>>>>> then sorted my Mail sitting in my recliner. I wasn't sure that was going >>>>>> to work but it did work quite fine. I am finding the level indicator to >>>>>> be a lot more helpful than the review function. Maybe it's just me since >>>>>> I just got it today, but by the time I tell it to scan again I have to >>>>>> be very careful not to change my position. >>>>>> Gigi >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 20, 2014, at 9:23 AM, Rob Bender <rbende...@gmail.com >>>>>> <mailto:rbende...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I also bought the app after hearing the Applevis podcast and reading >>>>>>> about the results from others on the list. I had the opportunity to >>>>>>> borrow a Nokia phone with the old KNFB app 4 or 5 years ago and was >>>>>>> only ever able to get a few words from a page. I was able to sit at >>>>>>> the kitchen table and sort the mail just after buying the new app. It >>>>>>> is definitely better than the old app since the field of view report >>>>>>> and the tilt notification are a great help in lining up the camera. I >>>>>>> will add that I had not been able to get good results with the other >>>>>>> OCR apps for the iPhone since I was horrible at lining up the camera. >>>>>>> It really seems that they did a great job on writing an app which >>>>>>> compensates for blind users. >>>>>>> I plan to try more documents today. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sep 20, 2014, at 6:00 AM, Eugenia Firth <gigifi...@me.com >>>>>>>> <mailto:gigifi...@me.com>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Pete >>>>>>>> You may have answered this already, but I once tried the KNFB reader >>>>>>>> that a friend had on his Windows phone. I couldn't get the thing to >>>>>>>> line up and I got the worst text you ever saw. Obviously, you got it >>>>>>>> to line up with the restaurant menu, and I'm really impressed about >>>>>>>> that. I have heard there is an option on this new program to find the >>>>>>>> line up. How sloppy can you be to line up the text and have >>>>>>>> the text come out good? I >>>>>>>> hope my question makes sense. I know a lot of people got the old one >>>>>>>> to work, but I was hopeless with it. So, did you ever use the old one, >>>>>>>> and is it, in your opinion, better than it was? >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> Gigi >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sep 20, 2014, at 1:58 AM, peter Apgar <pap...@gmavt.net >>>>>>>> <mailto:pap...@gmavt.net>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best app I've ever purchased! I to believe that this works better >>>>>>>>> then desktop scanning programs. First day with it was today. First >>>>>>>>> try at a restaurant scored the entire menu perfectly >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Pete >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sep 19, 2014, at 3:41 PM, Ray Foret Jr <rforet7...@comcast.net >>>>>>>>> <mailto:rforet7...@comcast.net>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Frankly, I could not agree more!!! My flat bed scanning days are >>>>>>>>>> through: or just about anyhow. I never got such good results with >>>>>>>>>> the other OCR apps. Not even with Abby Fine Reader Text Grabber, >>>>>>>>>> which is kinda sorta okay. The KNFB reader is where it's at if you >>>>>>>>>> want it to be both fast and accurate. Yes, it does help you angle >>>>>>>>>> the camra just right. I didn't realize, until I started using the >>>>>>>>>> KNFB reader app that I was always angling the camra lens much too >>>>>>>>>> far upward. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>> the Constantly Barefooted Ray, Still a very happy Mac and iphone >>>>>>>>>> user! >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my Mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the >>>>>>>>>> blind built-in and fully protected by ClamXav Antivirus! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sep 19, 2014, at 2:28 PM, Lisette Wesseling >>>>>>>>>> <lisettewessel...@gmail.com <mailto:lisettewessel...@gmail.com>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Donna, >>>>>>>>>>> I'm not Kevin but bought the app last night. On my first picture, I >>>>>>>>>>> got 100 per cent accuracy of an entire credit card statement which >>>>>>>>>>> obviously has lots of numbers and weird abbreviations. I spent >>>>>>>>>>> about a minute lining the document up and then took one picture and >>>>>>>>>>> it was perfect! I never had anything close to that with Prismo, >>>>>>>>>>> Text Grabber or Text Detective. I rarely got the whole document >>>>>>>>>>> there, whereas KNFB Reader helps you line it up if you want it to. >>>>>>>>>>> It also does images and pdf images, so it is definitely worth it >>>>>>>>>>> for me. I'm now sorry I wasted the money on those others, but it >>>>>>>>>>> was all there was at the time and they served their purpose. KNFB >>>>>>>>>>> Reader is now the only OCR app on my phone. >>>>>>>>>>> It takes about 2 seconds from when the picture is taken to when it >>>>>>>>>>> starts reading, and I'm using an iPhone 5 at this stage. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Good luck with your decision >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Lisette >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 20/09/2014, at 6:28 am, Donna Goodin <doniado...@me.com >>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:doniado...@me.com>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin, can you say more? I'm kind of on the fence about whether >>>>>>>>>>>> or not to purchase >>>>>>>>>>>> it, but so far I'm not completely happy with either >>>>>>>>>>>> textGrabber or Prizmo. I think the place where I'm going wrong >>>>>>>>>>>> with both those apps is the positioning of the camera. >>>>>>>>>>>> Does KNFB Reader >>>>>>>>>>>> make that easier? >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>>> Donna >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 19, 2014, at 12:19 PM, Kevin Mattingly >>>>>>>>>>>> <kdmattin...@gmail.com <mailto:kdmattin...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It just works. I'm glad I bought it. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 19, 2014, at 1:06 PM, Gary <gary.robl...@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:gary.robl...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, I know. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Did you get my emails regarding the Macbook configuration? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 19, 2014, at 11:59 AM, Cameron Strife >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <came...@cameronstrife.com <mailto:came...@cameronstrife.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> $100? Ouch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/19/14, Chris G <jedik...@mysticaccesspodcast.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:jedik...@mysticaccesspodcast.com>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Has anyone bought it for the iPadd with retina? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mystic Access >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where the magic is in learning. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 733 Delaware Rd 341 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Buffalo, NY 14223 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Phone: (716) 743-8244 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> web: www.mysticaccess.com <http://www.mysticaccess.com/> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Accessible Gadgets mailing list: > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.mysticaccess.com/listinfo.cgi/accessiblegadgets-mysticaccess.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://lists.mysticaccess.com/listinfo.cgi/accessiblegadgets-mysticaccess.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Podcast: www.mysticaccesspodcast.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.mysticaccesspodcast.com/> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Twitter: MysticAccess >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Twitter: JediKent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 19 Sep 2014 10:31:02 -0400 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin Mattingly <kdmattin...@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:kdmattin...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just bought it. I will let you know how it works. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 19, 2014, at 10:28 AM, 'Chris Blouch' via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MacVisionaries >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apparently the app is $100. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Baltimore, Maryland (September 18, 2014): The National >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Federation of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blind, the nation's leading advocate for access to print by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has applauded the release of KNFB Reader, a new app for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iPhone and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other Apple iOS devices, which uses the phone's camera and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state-of-the-art optical character >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recognition (OCR) technology >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> give >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind instant access to the contents of print materials. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Members of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the National Federation of the Blind have worked with K-NFB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reading >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Technology, Inc., which developed the app along with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sensotec, Inc. KNFB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reader is now available in the iTunes app store. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark Riccobono, President of the National Federation of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blind, said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The National Federation of the Blind has been involved for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the development of technology that helps blind people to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> acquire >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> access to the various print materials that we all encounter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from day to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> day. Ever since our first collaboration with Ray Kurzweil to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> develop the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kurzweil Reading Machine, which was the size of a household >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appliance, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we have been interested in the development of better and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more portable >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reading technology. Print on office documents, flyers, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> letters, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> menus, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> labels, and throughout our environment is still a part of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyday life, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even with the increased electronic transmission of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documents. Now >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> revolutionary technology that resides on the phones that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many of us >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carry each day provides instant access to the printed word. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We can hear >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our mail or the menu at our favorite restaurant spoken with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the iPhone's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> built-in text-to-speech technology, or read it in Braille >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> refreshable Braille display. This app will fundamentally >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyday lives of many blind people, helping us to get the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we need and live the lives we want." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from it, send >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tomacvisionar...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tomacvisionar...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mystic Access >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where the magic is in learning. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 733 Delaware Rd 341 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Buffalo, NY 14223 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Phone: (716) 743-8244 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> web: www.mysticaccess.com <http://www.mysticaccess.com/> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Accessible Gadgets mailing list: > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.mysticaccess.com/listinfo.cgi/accessiblegadgets-mysticaccess.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://lists.mysticaccess.com/listinfo.cgi/accessiblegadgets-mysticaccess.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Podcast: www.mysticaccesspodcast.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.mysticaccesspodcast.com/> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Twitter: MysticAccess >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Twitter: JediKent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tomacvisionar...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tomacvisionar...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tomacvisionar...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>>>>> send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email >>>>>>>>>>>>> tomacvisionar...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> 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