Thanks Cheryl, Your points are excellent. I couldn’t agree more.
I for one, am using Yosemite and VoiceOver very successfully. Robert Carter > On Oct 19, 2014, at 3:26 PM, Cheryl Homiak <cah4...@icloud.com> wrote: > > While I would always support people freely expressing their opinions, I see > some problems with the content of this letter. Because you have submitted > this to this email list, while I will never write anything insulting or > derogatory of anybody here, I do think it is appropriate to express my > concerns about what was written in the same place where you have posted your > opinions. This is by no means a personal critique, confrontation, or in any > way flaming. I do not know the writer and would write the same things if my > best friend had written this. > > First of all, unless you participated in the developer beta or the public > beta, this seems to me to be a little hasty. The OS has been out only since > Thursday afternoon so you haven’t had much time to work with it or get help > from others. Of course bugs and problems should be pointed out immediately, > but it would seem to me that one should work with a new system for a while > before coming to the conclusions you have come to in your email to > Accessibility. As I recall, you were expressing these views very soon after > the upgrade was released. Even if you did participate in one of the betas, I > would think that you would hold off on such a strong negative response since > you can see from the list traffic that some people - blind and visually > impaired people - are adapting to the new OS and even enjoying it. > > Secondly, what has been written doesn’t appear to be wholly factual and > accurate to me. Yes, the sidebar in iTunes is gone but some people are > finding their music just fine. You don’t like the change; maybe there are > changes I don’t like. But “it isn’t accessible” and “I don’t like it” or “I > can’t figure this out” are not synonymous. There have been several posts > where people explained how to work with iTunes without the sidebar and while > some of this specifically talked about Windows, this is also true on the Mac. > The same can be said for spotlight. I am not saying there might not be any > limitations or problems but I am searching and finding, within my own > computer and outside. Just went to Wikipedia to read about Christopher > Columbus for instance. Even the subject line isn’t really descriptive of what > is being written. “Voice commands” does not immediately make me think of > voiceover or access for blind people in particular. > > Thirdly, the explanations given do not contain concrete replicable details. > You don’t mention what various methods you have tried to employ to find your > music in iTunes or to search with spotlight in light of the changes and then > described what happens when you try these strategies. There is nothing here > for anybody in accessibility to really take hold of and run with except for > your citation of the website with the list of bugs. > > Fourthly, you bring up trust. I would leave the issue of trust to my > relationships with close friends and God; I do not trust companies, nor do I > distrust them. I evaluate what they are doing related to what I need and use > or don’t use the services and products accordingly. > > Fifthly, the lack of substantial facts and replicable description is > accompanied by a great amount of angry accusation and emotionally-based > claims that cannot be proven. How do any of us know what those who developed > this OS were thinking? How do you know we all got slapped in the face? You > certainly are not reflecting my view when you write this though certainly > there are probably others who would agree with you. I understand that you > feel that the input of those blind people who participated in betas, which > were both developer and public betas, was not valued on the same level as > reports of other testers about issues other than voiceover, but even if it > could be concretely proven that that is actually true, it is my experience > that if people will not listen to careful and thorough critiques you will not > win their willing attention and cooperation by angry denunciations either. It > works as a vent and all of us have done that at times and I would have no > right to say it should never be done, but I’m not so sure it works to promote > change. > > You don’t like Yosemite; possibly a lot of people, blind and sighted, don’t > like it. On the other hand, a lot of people, blind and sighted, are > downloading and installing it and finding it can be successfully used and are > liking it for the most part. Of course, we would all like a bug-free > environment. We should all express our opinions to each other and Apple and > choose other alternatives if what we have is no longer meeting our needs. > State your opinions freely and openly; even express your anger and > frustration as you see fit. But please don’t confuse your opinions and likes > and dislikes with the larger issue of whether the OS is accessible or not for > blind people: at least not while some blind people are successfully using and > enjoying it. Your opinion of Apple and your judgment as to how usable the OS > is for you and your decision as to whether or not you want to try to work > with it are not one and the same as the larger issue of whether the OS is > accessible for blind people or not. I can know that something is accessible > and that others are using it and can decide that I myself don’t like it, > don’t want to use it, and can declare that I personally find it lacking, but > this does not necessarily mean that it is inaccessible. Usually we can not > claim that anything is fully accessible for blind people; there are > definitely some products and services that we know are totally inaccessible > for us; I would say that Mac OS in general and Yosemite in particular is > largely accessible with some caveats and issues. Whether each person likes or > dislikes the form that the accessibility takes is a separate discussion, in > my opinion is worthy of discussion, but is a very individual matter. > > > -- > Cheryl > > I tried and tried to turn over a new leaf. > I got crumpled wads of tear-stained paper > thrown in the trash! > Then God gave me a new heart and life: > His joy for my despairing tears! > And now, every day: > "This I call to mind, > and therefore I have hope: > The steadfast love of the Lord > never ceases; > his mercies never come to an end; > they are new every morning; > great is your faithfulness." > (Lamentations 3:21-23 ESV) > > > > >> On Oct 19, 2014, at 1:28 AM, Pamela Francis <gypsykitt...@gmail.com >> <mailto:gypsykitt...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Apple has so much broken this OS. I have no idea why they would think of >> releasing it without having paid more attention to what they were doing. >> I wrote this to the accessibility email address, even though it may not be >> totally their fault, I can't believe they don't have some input into what >> goes into their new OS. >> >> Hello, >> I am extremely disappointed with the lack of attention paid to accessibility >> in your latest OS10 release. >> You overhauled the look of your software, while not thinking of those of us >> who have grown to trust you with our accessibility needs. >> I know many visually impaired beta testers, most under NDA with you per each >> release of both desktop & IOS software. >> I realize we are a minority in the big picture of your customer base. >> However, if one has paid money to participate in your testers program & is >> paid lipservice to what is reported, what good are the testers? Has the >> quality control suffered because the upgrades are now free? >> Aren't we as a disability community owed a description of what we can expect >> in terms we understand? It looks pretty, but acts very much like something >> from a crackerjack box. >> I can't get to my music in Itunes because the views I have become used to >> have disappeared. There is no more sidebar. >> In spotlight search, which is supposed to search for references outside my >> Mac, I hear either the words button or image in the search results. >> How is this useful to me or anyone who would try to use it with no vision? >> As I stated earlier, there are those who have been under NDA to attempt to >> alert you of the issues before release. Those same people had enough respect >> for their contracts to not divulge issues that may concern the rest of us. >> However, in return we all got slapped in the face. >> There is a site that gathers bugs, along with other content. >> In case you are interested go to www.applevis.com <http://www.applevis.com/> >> As has been shown, I doubt any of this will be taken to heart. >> I can only hope. >> My next computer, if I need one will be a Windows machine. They are cheaper, >> maybe a little buggy, yet I know what I am getting. >> Premium prices should reflect premium quality in every sense of the word. >> Pamela Francis >> >> Pam Francis >> >> On Oct 18, 2014, at 8:47 PM, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com >> <mailto:mehg...@icloud.com>> wrote: >> >> It's now called Dictation Commands, and is coupled with Dictation. Enable it >> in accessibility preferences, and use it by pressing the same command you'd >> use to start dictation (press that key once more to stop). The problem is >> that VoiceOver is muted during all dictation, which now includes issuing >> commands, so even if a command works, you get no spoken feedback. >>> On Oct 18, 2014, at 5:55 PM, Faisal <newyorkyank...@gmail.com >>> <mailto:newyorkyank...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi everyone, >>> did they completely do away with voice commands on Yosemite? My key trigger >>> no longer works and I couldn’t find it in system preferences. >>> Thanks >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >> >> >> -- >> Have a great day, >> Alex Hall >> mehg...@icloud.com <mailto:mehg...@icloud.com> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries > <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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