That phone, called Oasis in the US, was an entirely private venture although they did get a loan from Once in Spain on which I think they defaulted. I am good friends with one of the people who led the organization here in the US and she's using an iPhone these days.
As I've said, a mass market solution will almost always beat the blind guy ghetto solutions and will definitely remain far more up to date than the alternative. It's nearly impossible to make custom hardware for our market without hitting really high manufacturing costs due to low volumes. FS and some of the other big players can do a lot by building their hardware in China but the smaller players cannot afford the set up costs that distant outsourcing requires. cdh On Nov 30, 2009, at 5:21 PM, carlene knight wrote: > I know that the companies take huge advantage of the fact that they have a > guaranteed nitch and can charge whatever they want. That's why I will not > upgrade my JAWS SMA. For one thing I don't need it and secondly, I don't > want to pay that kind of price for an upgrade, but FS knows that they can get > away with it because of a guaranteed market. I'm not saying things could not > change, but simply stating that you can't get JAWS or a Braille display from > a home electronics ore software store, and I wouldn't expect to happen any > time soon if ever. In their eyes, why should They bother as they won't sell > enough of them to make it worth their while. There is a cell phone put out > by Capital Accessibility in Europe. I've seen one and it's no big deal. The > speech is great, but there is no camera, digital screen, or anything that > might ad a bit of a price to the phone. It's built like a brick, but it is > over $500 and though the speech is clear, it's very robotic. Tell me that's > not ridiculous? I don't know that agencies are responsible for this one, but > the phone is so tailored to our needs that somebody will buy it. Not me. > Granted, if more people were learning braille and speech software as they > were dealing with macular degeneration, and there was a big enough demand for > it, things might come down a bit. That's great about the scanner. I'd > better stop typing now as I am misspelling more things than I am typing > correctly and am about to throw this keyboard, though it's not at fault. > > On Nov 30, 2009, at 1:46 PM, Richie Gardenhire wrote: > >> With all due respect, that argument has been used time and time >> again. To that, I say this: the best example of a product that has >> gone down in price because of the acceptance of it by the sighted >> community, is the optical scanner, which was originally intended for >> use by the blind for scanning newspapers, magazines, and othr >> documents in their computers or reading machines. Back then, you had >> to pay thousands of dolars for the machine, and ys, state agencies >> bought it for us, if we were lucky. Now, one can buy a scanner and to >> a certain extent, software for scanning pictures, text, and other >> document forms into one's PC, at a fraction of the cost it was in the >> 1970's. The point here is that it found a marketable niche among the >> sighted community, and once they were mass-produced, prices started >> coming down and people could afford said scanners. While braille >> displays are another issue, there are companies who are working to >> make even displays more affordable and accepting to the universal >> design market. In the 1980's, Apple tried an experiment, using an >> ordinary, dot matrix printer, to produce braille. It wasn't the best >> quality braille, but it was an experiment that, had it been popular, >> might have flown. Richie Gardenhire, Anchorage, Alaska. >> >> >> On Nov 30, 2009, at 11:50 AM, carlene knight wrote: >> >> Unfortunately you have to be realistic though. I agree with you in a >> sense, but going into a store and buying JAWS or Window Eyes off of >> the shelf? That would be nice? that's one reason I like the Mac and >> accessories. The people in the Mac and Apple stores will likely not >> be trained for extensive use with Vo, but they should be able to make >> sure it works. Try going into a Best Buy >> and asking them if JFW works. We probably make up less than 10% of >> the population so it isn't going to happen. It would still be >> expensive, and that's why I needed the agency to buy it for me. Again >> don't get me wrong, in a perfect world that might happen, but we all >> know the world is far from perfect. I'm not trying to defend anybody >> necessarily, and I don't consider myself dependent because I need >> assistance from them. I got my own jobs, take care of myself, go >> where I need to go etc. A good organization helps people become >> independent. I agree that whenever possible, we should do for >> ourselves and not be too dependent on anybody, agencies included. >> >> On Nov 30, 2009, at 12:23 PM, Richie Gardenhire wrote: >> >>> And for this reason, I feel that many state agencies, (Alaska's, being >>> one of them)will be cutting back services, in favor of other things >>> and as Mark so eloquently pointed out, the elderly, the poor, and the >>> disabled, will be hurt first. I know thisis a different subject line >>> from what was originally intended, and I apologize for that, but I >>> will say one more thing on this, and that is that I'm in favor of >>> universal design so that blind people can walk into any store and >>> purchase off-the-shelf software and get it working and we not be >>> forced to be co-dependent on state agencies to purchase our stuff. I >>> guess, in a way, I'm against state agencies for the reasons I stated >>> above. Richie Gardenhire, Anchorage, Alaska. >>> >>> >>> On Nov 30, 2009, at 10:32 AM, carlene knight wrote: >>> >>> Hi Mark: >>> >>> I certainly don't hold a grudge as everybody is entitled to their >>> opinion. However, if it weren't for the Commission for the blind here >>> in Oregon, there is no way that I could perform the job I was hired >>> for. I had to have a programmer write JAWS scripts so that I could >>> get to the buttons, read the drop down boxes that just had graphics >>> for names, etc. I couldn't have afforded the thousands of dollars that >>> has costed. He is working as we speak since the company I work for >>> has changed software and everything we had done in the past regarding >>> the original software is now null and void. I could have not afforded >>> a Braille display at about 12,000 dollars. I can say with certainty >>> that there are few if any companies that would provide any of these >>> services. Unfortunately many government funded agencies, including >>> the Oregon Commission for the blind do know little about Mac >>> accessibility as they have contracts with certain vendors, and, face >>> it,whether we like it or not, a majority of companies still use >>> Windows based software. My husband and I both decided on our own to >>> try the Mac, and though I've had some problems, I'm glad I did. I've >>> learned it without an instructor. We nearly lost our Commission last >>> summer so when I hear people talking about how we shouldn't have >>> government agencies such as this, I have to disagree though they do >>> have their problems. Yes, some people do rely on others to much, but >>> not all of us do. Like you, I grew up in the public school system in >>> a rural area. I was born blind also. I'll get off my soap box now. >>> >>> On Nov 30, 2009, at 10:51 AM, Mark BurningHawk Baxter wrote: >>> >>>> You, and I to a lesser extent, and others are the exception. I was >>>> born blind, didn't go to any institutions for the blind, was raised >>>> as >>>> an only child, mostly in rural Vermont with minimal help from state >>>> agencies. Graduated from Dartmouth when I was 20, again with minimal >>>> if any help from agencies--didn't have my first experience with any >>>> agencies or institutions for the blind until I was 24, when the >>>> Carroll Center was offering a medical transcription course and I >>>> needed another, safer place to be. They kicked me out of their dorm, >>>> making me homeless, after six weeks there. Rehab flatly refused to >>>> support me and my music career in any way, and pressured me to go to >>>> the Carroll Center in the first place, then pressured me to get >>>> therapy and reform my ways when they made me homeless. I only >>>> started >>>> cautiously learning how to deal with the agencies in 2007, when it >>>> became clear that my failing hearing was going to force me out of the >>>> transcription career I'd had for 13+ years. I learned Jaws and >>>> Windows essentially by myself, as I've always been good with tech. >>>> Even now, while I may have learned a little about how to get along >>>> with the agencies and get what I need, it's a very uneasy truce at >>>> best./ I hope to be starting a job at another institution for the >>>> blind soon, but this time as a trainer, not a student, which >>>> hopefully >>>> will turn out better. You can see why I advocate for the abolition >>>> of >>>> such systems. They do not foster independence of thinking, and tend >>>> to punish outside-the-box people, in my experience. I do realize >>>> that >>>> people blinded later in life may not adapt as fully as those born >>>> blind; I'm learning that as I lose my hearing, so I have the >>>> privilege >>>> of seeing both sides of the coin, but think about what that implies-- >>>> that the pressure on those whose world has already been blasted by >>>> losing their sight will essentially become putty in the hands of >>>> high- >>>> pressure agencies who are set in their ways. The system seems to >>>> punish at both ends--if you're too independent, you're pressured to >>>> conform; if you're new to blindness, you're taught not to think for >>>> yourself. Hell, I didn't even do mobility orienting stuff until last >>>> year, when Rehab here in CA suggested I ry it, and I decided, in the >>>> interests of keeping the peace, what the heck; my mobility teacher >>>> quickly realized that there was very little, beyond the immediate >>>> rehearsing of directions, that she could improve upon what I and my >>>> dog were already going. Since I got Trekker, that's even more so; >>>> now >>>> that Trekker is temporarily broken, I truly feel the loss. :) I >>>> don't >>>> see how the agencies really have done me any good, other than in the >>>> purely material realm, and if I weren't as articulate as I am about >>>> stating my needs, and as forceful as I am about what I need, which >>>> most people are not, even that gain might be minimal, and even now >>>> the >>>> damage is significant. So, that's where my beef with the system(s) >>>> comes in; sorry if that makes it a personal grudge, but there you are >>>> then. >>>> >>>> >>>> Mark BurningHawk Baxter >>>> >>>> Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 >>>> MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com >>>> My home page: >>>> http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>> . >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en >>>> . >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> . >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en >>> . >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> . >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en >>> . >>> >>> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en >> . >> >> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> >> > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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