Hi! I don’t use Ueb but would prefer dot 8 as an indicator for such things as cursive and bold text. /A > On 25 Oct 2016, at 00:02, Brandt Steenkamp <brandt.steenk...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi there, > > I cannot state my hate for UEB strongly enough. In South Africa it is called > UBC, for unified Braille code, instead of Unified English Braille. All 11 > official languages in this country was hit by this cluster f*** of a system. > Let me rather shut up now. > > Hope you all have a grate day. > > Warm regards, > > Brandt Steenkamp > > Sent from my Macbook Pro > > Contact: > > Phone: > Private: +27 (0)60 525 9181 <tel://+27605259181> > For technical support with iOS: +27 (0)78 120 5013 <calto://+27781205013> > > Email: brandt.steenk...@gmail.com <mailto:brandt.steenk...@gmail.com> > > Twitter: @brandtsteenkamp <http://www.twitter.com/brandtsteenkamp> >> On 24 Oct 2016, at 11:12 PM, Jonathan Cohn <jon.c.c...@gmail.com >> <mailto:jon.c.c...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Folks, since my braille reading is still way too slow, I only use Braille >> devices to verify if they behave with our web content. My understanding is >> that JAWS uses dots 7/8 to indicate text attributes but that UEB braille has >> in line 6 dot ways of indicating these attributes. What are people's >> preferences on this? Also, if UEB text attribution indicators are used do >> folks only use the dots 7 and 8 for cursor location? >> >> >> >> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 10:55 PM John Panarese <jpanar...@gmail.com >> <mailto:jpanar...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> It is best to write to accessibility. I know they are working on it and >> read the feedback. This is extremely important for Braille users, so the >> more they hear, the better. >> >> >> Take Care >> >> John D. Panarese >> Director >> Mac for the Blind >> Tel, (631) 724-4479 <tel:(631)%20724-4479> >> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com <mailto:j...@macfortheblind.com> >> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com <http://www.macfortheblind.com/> >> >> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer >> >> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE >> >> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT >> >> >> >>> On Oct 22, 2016, at 2:22 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu <kgli...@icloud.com >>> <mailto:kgli...@icloud.com>> wrote: >>> >>> I think it's important to have all the text shown in it's bold or >>> italicised and so on as only then one would know how the written word is on >>> paper or digitally. A good braille transcriber will do this for all users >>> who use Braille. >>> >>> That is the only good thing with Jaws, you get flawless braille. May be it >>> will happen on the Mac if we all wrote to Apple and said that we wanted >>> better braille support. >>> >>> Kawal. >>>> On 22 Oct 2016, at 16:11, Devin Prater <d.pra...@me.com >>>> <mailto:d.pra...@me.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> The main thing I miss on Mac that is in NVDA's braille support on Windows >>>> is formatting information being shown. This includes italicized or bolded >>>> text in HTML documents. I haven't been able to try Chrome's braille >>>> support, so I don't know if it supports the showing of formatting >>>> information, but neither Mac nor iOS show this at all, mainly putting the >>>> differently formatted text in a different element than the rest, which can >>>> get annoying in things like Bible apps, where sometimes even lone words >>>> are italicized. NVDA just shows the text as italicized in braille and >>>> moves on, as any good braille transcriber would. >>>> >>>> On 10/22/2016 9:41 AM, Kevin Chao wrote: >>>>> I'm glad to know I'm not alone in feeling that Braille on Mac, even >>>>> Sierra is non-delightful/productive. It's too bad,, as it's quite good on >>>>> iOS. It's great that Chrome OS (ChromeBook) Braille support has improved >>>>> greatly and has leaped other platforms with ChromeVox Next. >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 1:26 PM Kawal Gucukoglu <kgli...@icloud.com >>>>> <mailto:kgli...@icloud.com>> wrote: >>>>> I have given up using braille on the Mac as it's hopeless. I don't think >>>>> Apple will do anything to improve it. At least Apple have got it right >>>>> on the I phone as I love it. >>>>> >>>>> Kawal. >>>>>> On 19 Oct 2016, at 19:09, Anders Holmberg <and...@pipkrokodil.se >>>>>> <mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi! >>>>>> To be honest i seldom use braille on my mac as its decades from how good >>>>>> it works on windows and Linux. >>>>>> I have mailed the accessibility team about how poor braille is imho but >>>>>> with no luck. >>>>>> So i gave it up a couple of years ago. >>>>>> Maybe i should begin from scratch again. >>>>>> /A >>>>>>> On 14 Oct 2016, at 23:55, Christopher-Mark Gilland >>>>>>> <clgillan...@gmail.com <mailto:clgillan...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That's exactly what I did. I set up a commander to mute Speech. I >>>>>>> really wonder why they didn't natively give us a command to do this >>>>>>> aside from the trackpad commander. What if you're like me, and don't >>>>>>> have a track/touch pad? I really don't think Apple thought that one >>>>>>> through the greatest. LOL! >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> Christopher Gilland >>>>>>> JAWS Certified, 2016. >>>>>>> Training Instructor. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> i...@gillandmarketing.com <mailto:i...@gillandmarketing.com> >>>>>>> Phone: (704) 256-8010 <tel:(704)%20256-8010>. >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aleeha Dudley" >>>>>>> <blindcowgirl1...@gmail.com <mailto:blindcowgirl1...@gmail.com>> >>>>>>> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 5:20 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Braille Navigation annoyances >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> For the speech when moving between items, could you mute VoiceOver >>>>>>> while reading to solve this issue by ensuring that keyboard commander >>>>>>> is on with VO shift K and pressing right option d? >>>>>>> Second, I can duplicate the issue of routing keys not working, both on >>>>>>> a BrailleNote Apex BT 32 and a Brailliant BI 32. I don’t know what’s >>>>>>> going on, but it’s really annoying. Anyone who can help with this would >>>>>>> be awesome. >>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>> Aleeha >>>>>>>> On Oct 14, 2016, at 12:06 PM, Chris Gilland <clgillan...@gmail.com >>>>>>>> <mailto:clgillan...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Guys, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am currently using a braille display with my Mac Mini Late 2012 on >>>>>>>> El Capitan. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have a few questions, please. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> First off, I am using contracted braille, and have disabled dot 7 8 >>>>>>>> braille. I’m noticing that when typing in a text field, be it in Text >>>>>>>> Edit, Pages, Mail, wherever, it doesn’t matter at all, even though >>>>>>>> contracted braille is enabled, I’m finding that the current word under >>>>>>>> the cursor is getting expanded to computer braille. I’ve looked in the >>>>>>>> Voiceover utility under the Braille category and automatic translation >>>>>>>> is unchecked. That’s the only thing I can thing that would control >>>>>>>> this behavior. Regardless, that isn’t working. Is there a way to turn >>>>>>>> that off, so it contracts regardless? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Second of all is a much more aggravating problem by far and away! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> When I am reading a document in Safari, or say somewhere with an html >>>>>>>> element, like a web area in ITunes, or whatever, point is, it’s a web >>>>>>>> html content area, Each paragraph if a seperet item as far as >>>>>>>> Voiceover is concerned. I’m using DOM order, and I don’t have any >>>>>>>> desire to change that. This is absolutely fine, but the problem lies >>>>>>>> in panning with the display. Regardless if I’m using my big Alva >>>>>>>> Satelite 584 Pro, which is my primary display, or I’m using my Pacmate >>>>>>>> BX Omni 20 cell while on the go, I find that as soon as I pan the >>>>>>>> display to the right and it leaves one item and moves to the next, >>>>>>>> Voiceover starts audibly, with Alex, reading that next item. I know >>>>>>>> it’s simply doing that because of the fact I transitioned from the >>>>>>>> previous item to another item. The issue is, it really is very >>>>>>>> distracting when I’m in the heat of reading a really good article. >>>>>>>> Then, I have to take my hands off the display, hit the control key on >>>>>>>> the keyboard to shut up Alex, then go back to the display, and >>>>>>>> continue. It really really breaks the flow of things. I don’t mind >>>>>>>> Voiceover doing this normally, but there are times I’d rather be able >>>>>>>> to pan, and even if I leave one item and move to another, I’d rather >>>>>>>> it reflect that on the display, yes, but Voiceover not speak at all, >>>>>>>> if all I’m doing is panning. It’s fine if one item takes more than >>>>>>>> one pan to complete, so say on my 20 cell display, an item is over 20 >>>>>>>> characters. If I pan past the 20th cell to the 21st cell of the item, >>>>>>>> that is fine. It’s when I reach the end of the item, then try moving >>>>>>>> to the next item there after that this problem is occuring. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The final question I have is regarding my routing keys on my display. >>>>>>>> I don’t understand why, but even in Sierra, this is an issue. For >>>>>>>> some b izarre reason, my routing keys are not working at all on my >>>>>>>> Alva Satelite Pro 584. It’s the most weirdest thing! My PM20 display >>>>>>>> works fine. Another friend of mine who also owns an Alva Satelite >>>>>>>> tried to reproduce the problem, and he can as well. So clearly, >>>>>>>> something’s either broken or not set by default. I didn’t think the >>>>>>>> routing keys had to be set. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So, say I’m editting a document, and I find a typo. I should be able >>>>>>>> to press the router butting directly above the error to move my >>>>>>>> insertion point to that character and fix the mistake. I can’t. When I >>>>>>>> try, it just dings at me. This is both again on Sierra, as well as on >>>>>>>> El Capitan. It works, as I said with my PM display, just not with the >>>>>>>> Alva. I’ve tried both the top, and the bottom row of routing keys to >>>>>>>> no avale. I don’t think these need to be mapped, as with the PM >>>>>>>> display plugged in, I went to the VO Utility/Braille, then on the >>>>>>>> braille display tab, under Assign commands, I don’t see those keys >>>>>>>> individually mapped. On the PM display, they just work. So I don’t >>>>>>>> think this is a mapping issue. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> When I go into the setup within the actual firmware itself of the Alva >>>>>>>> display, the routing keys are not disabled. So, yeah… I’m totally >>>>>>>> stumped. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I should add that on the Windows side of things on my Win XP machine >>>>>>>> with JAWS 15, the routing keys work perfectly, so it’s definitely not >>>>>>>> a hardware malfuntion. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Any help with these things would be appreciated. I suppose I could >>>>>>>> call Accessibility, but the last time I did and asked them about >>>>>>>> anything braille related, they didn’t have the slightest clue, and >>>>>>>> normally haven’t other times as well that I called about braille. I >>>>>>>> guess they just are not trained on anything braille related, which is >>>>>>>> a bloody crying shame! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anyway, can anyone help with these things? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, >>>>>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact >>>>>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list >>>>>>>> itself. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach >>>>>>>> mark at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries%2bmodera...@googlegroups.com> and your owner is >>>>>>>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> >>>>>>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, >>>>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact >>>>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list >>>>>>> itself. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. 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You can reach mark >>>>>> at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com >>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com> and your owner is >>>>>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >>>>>> >>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>> >>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>> >>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark >>>>> at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com> and your owner is Cara >>>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >>>>> >>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>>> -- >>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>> >>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>> >>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark >>>>> at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries%2bmodera...@googlegroups.com> and your owner is >>>>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >>>>> >>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>> Visionaries list. >>>> >>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>> >>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: >>>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com >>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com> and your owner is Cara >>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >>>> >>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>> <mailto:macvisionaries%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>> Visionaries list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: >>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com> and your owner is Cara >>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >> >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >> Visionaries list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark >> at:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:macvisionaries%2bmodera...@googlegroups.com> and your owner is Cara >> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >> Visionaries list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark >> at:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com> and your owner is Cara >> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: > macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you > can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries > <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>.
-- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
