Hi Mario, thanks for the very kind words...We are fortunate to have plenty of thoughtful people on the list who've made some great contributions. In response to what you've said, and the contributions of a few others today, I'd make the following points. Apple is a mainstream company, but by virtue of the fact that they've decided to produce screen readers, that also makes them a screen reader company and I think that means they should be held to no less a standard than any other screen reader company. In fact, you could argue they may be held to a slightly higher one, because if the cross-functional teams are working right, they can build in accessibility from the ground up when a new OS is being designed which gives them an advantage. I think also that as paying customers, we're entitled to be concerned when something that worked well before does not work as well now, at least for some of us. I think it's also important that there is genuine dialogue that goes on between a relatively small, niche community like ours, and Apple. People have to pay sums that for many blind people are quite significant, in order to beta test Apples operating systems and offer comment at a time when it can hopefully make a difference. Assuming some blind people are doing this, and bugs are being reported, some decision is being made somewhere not to give these bugs a high enough priority to be fixed. I was a product manager for 10 years, so I know that that's all part of the process, a company can't fix every single issue and you have to make the tough call. I think though that with some of the efficiency hits we're taking, perhaps there's a misunderstanding about how important some of these issues actually are. I don't think Apple is evil or anything like that, nor are they saints. I think they were motivated to really grab the accessibility bull by the horns through a mixture of altruism and business pragmatism, and they've done a great job. I'd just like to see some new vehicles for communication with our community emerge. I have some ideas about this and will take some ideas forward, as they have fine products and have done more to embrace the concept of universal design than any other company in the world. I know it's easy to get frustrated, but venting without thinking about how we can be a constructive part of the solution won't make any difference either. Take care and thanks again. Jonathan Mosen Mosen Consulting Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training http://Mosen.org
On 18/12/2013, at 5:01 pm, Mario Navarro <mario....@gmail.com> wrote: > > hi ,jonathan. > jonathan do not need to respond to this post, but let me tell you one thing > friend. > this is why I admire you and consider you the smartest blind in the world > you have an open mind, and think with a universal philosophy. > and still respect you more because you did not fear anything or anyone and > speak what 's on your mind without fear of anything. > and you know why you fear not, because you're a super intelligent, > autonomous, and not need favors from anyone else. blinds all the world knows > you, admire you and respect you. > and if they do it is because you have become a super independent person and > think with your own head without being forced to think about how others want > or obligate you. > jonathan know what makes me most disappointed with some people? > is why they are not good or even with them. > most people who continue to defend the apple, have the perfect idea that > apple or department accessibility is missing with them and with tremendous > irresponsibility in their line of duty. > this may not be acceptable for a company like Apple that is super millionaire > and has more than enough money to have a well organized structure so that > everything works as required for a company with this status. > there may be several reasons for these failures are happening, but one thing > I'm sure and I know perfectly well that everyone knows. > if we blind in our work we are irresponsible, our boss will call us the > responsibility of duty and we are penalized and fired. > so why we have to feel inferior and always be forever grateful to anyone who > is paid very well to be responsible in your work? > do we have to conform blind us with our disabilities and moreover stay in > debt forever with people who have a duty to be responsible in their jobs and > are not? > why the hell I'm bound to thank a company or person just because I'm blind > and they are not blind and why they are superior to me and I have to subject > myself to favors that think make me? ... > so if I have to be responsible in my work, and contribute to society with my > taxes, for their well-being, why I do not have the equal rights to them? > I'm independent and do not depend on the apple or the apple does me favors to > me and paid dearly for having a product from apple and have the right to > demand in my condition, what others require in their condition. > and I do not speak only in the apple, but also speak to any other company. > we must stop thinking that we should be eternally grateful to anyone who has > a duty to serve in the rights which assist us. > and do not come to me with a conversation I do not know the politics of apple > and do not know how is your philosophy as a company, because neither am nor > want to know. > and to be even more real, I'm more than sure that nobody knows. > so do not assume the role of diplomats because the apple does not need you > for anything. > I struggled to write perfectly in English when I reported two bugs in the > voice over the apple safari, and have not seen my request is fulfilled as > well as all of you who did not see it your be served. > think this is normal? think we will spend the rest of life to report errors > to apple and do not see our efforts rewarded? > friends this is already past the apple takes years to fix bugs and neither > dropper they are fixed. > I sometimes I'm thinking about something that I can never understand. > apple could be the reign of accessibility roducts in their business because > they have everything to make it happen.. if liability was rule number 1 and > support voice over was a much more serious matter for them, there would be no > more blind to use windows. > yes I am an Apple user, the right or wrong I am. > and you know why I am? > because I love this system and I love the voice over and I know I could be > much happier than we are. > apple could be the biggest company in the world and is proud to be a leader > in the accessibility market. > and I never can understand why they do not care about that. > money, they have lots of money > because they do not hire more people to increase productivity in a sector > that is missing in this case the Department of accessibility? > yes I say this because it is one of the reasons that excuse for many people. > but for me nothing can excuse a company with the Status of apple and the more > solid with super strong bases in the financial aspect. > because they do not want to dominate the market in the world of accessibility? > they know it was just having the will to do and it was all of them. > Does anyone have an explanation for this? > this is what I can not understand my friends. > they have everything to make this more possible and do not want it. > much smaller companies that can not compare with the apple, have a great > ambition to achieve always reach farther, and with few possessions produce > more than the apple. > and they just create a product for a system that is not native to them. > ie, work for the company that we all know. > I'll never understand it unless someday apple change your ideologys. > more would have to talk to you, but I 'm stay for here because my English is > very weak and then I'm feel frustrated I can not answer how Iwanted people > who respond to my messages. > > sorry for my bad inglish. > cheers. > No dia 17/12/2013, às 15:14, Jonathan Mosen <jmo...@mosen.org> escreveu: > >> I do wonder if someone critical to do with Apple Accessibility has left or >> been moved elsewhere. There are ongoing issues not just with Mavericks, but >> with iOS 7 as well, and while all software has bugs, some of these issues >> are quite significant in terms of productivity. >> I still think on mobile devices, Apple is offering the best experience out >> there right now, but i applaud the way Google's accessibility team engages >> with our community in a much more transparent way. I don't know whether bugs >> that are being reported are being ignored or just not being accorded a high >> enough priority to have them make the cut before OS builds are released, but >> something with Apple's quality control when it comes to accessibility has >> gone wrong.. >> Jonathan Mosen >> Mosen Consulting >> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training >> http://Mosen.org >> >> On 17/12/2013, at 8:22 pm, Mario Navarro <mario....@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> yes jonathan you're right. >>> What a big disappointment. >>> most errors were not corrected. >>> a month and a few days waiting for good news, and at the end of waiting >>> apple's accessibility team gives us a handful of nothing. >>> I am completely disappointed with apple. >>> apple is worse than freedoms. >>> god what is wrong with apple's accessibility team? ... no point reporting >>> bugs, because the team doesn't listen to anyone and became a group of >>> irresponsible people. >>> steve jobs please back from heaven to us. >>> cheers. >>> No dia 16/12/2013, às 23:24, Jonathan Mosen <jmo...@mosen.org> escreveu: >>> >>>> Hi all, well after waiting patiently for the 10.9.1 update, it seems quite >>>> disappointing to the extent that I even went into "About this Mac" to >>>> make sure I was really running the update. >>>> In Mil, the number of messages in a conversation is still spoken last, >>>> meaning if you have preview turned on, you have to sit through a lot to >>>> hear that critical information. >>>> The VO-J bug in mail, where sometimes you press it and you're not placed >>>> in the body of a message, is still present for me. >>>> I also continue to find that command-Tabbing from Fusion into another >>>> application takes a very long time, which it didn't do in Mountain Lion. >>>> They claim to have specifically fixed some Vo issues, but these major >>>> productivity hits, for me, remain in this update. >>>> Jonathan >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
