Re: [mailop] Microsoft Junk Mail Reporting Program

[Richard van Looijen]

Hi Michael,

you're under absolutely no obligation to reply ofcourse, but this feels 
like something that could really make a difference!

Do you think sending such a FBL confirmation message would be a good idea?

- Richard


On 07/28/2016 09:07 AM, rich...@flowmailer.com wrote:
Hi Michael,

thanks for your input. The challenge our customers face is that it's a 
really difficult process (and costly) to explain when they need reach 
out to their recipients by phone about a FBL. Often they have no 
choice because they really need to get their invoices (or something 
else that's important) delivered, and we tell them the deliverability 
trade off is worth the extra effort.

Your suggestion opens up the possibility of (in part) automating that 
process by sending a confirmation message that would allow that 
customer to regain access some of those recipients. If effective, that 
would be great! Since, as far as we know, no one is is doing this yet, 
we do have some doubts that you may be able to help with:

- Wouldn't the confirmation/follow-up email just get thrown in the 
Spam folder, severely reducing effectiveness?

- Wouldn't sending another message after getting the FBL negatively 
impact the senders' reputation?

It would be great to hear more of your thoughts on such a process!



On 2016-07-27 21:45, Michael Wise via mailop wrote:
My top of mind suggestions on what might be a good idea to avoid
trouble (getting your traffic auto-Junked, or your IPs blocked) might
include the following, for what it's worth:

If you get a sample from any FBL, for a given recipient, you should
make sure that you can figure out who it is, probably best to use a
token in the body of the message, and ... you should fire off an email
to that customer asking them if they wish to continue receiving
mailings, with a "Yes" button (and some automatic logic to detect some
AI that clicks all buttons), and only if they do in fact click, "Yes"
do you continue to send traffic.

If they go more than a week without opening an email, switch them to 
monthly.
If they go more than a month without opening, send them a, "Do you
want to continue?" email and wait.
And if traffic to a recipient ever bounces (except for 400 or 500
refusal codes that do NOT implicate IP reputation), queue up a, "Do
you want to continue?" email, but hold it for ... at least a day? And
suspend all other deliveries to that recipient.

Y'all might want to save up all the 4xx and 5xx codes, and sort 'em
and look over them manually at the end of day, just to be sure
something hasn't gone pear-shaped. I suspect the really big senders do
it in Real Time. As a matter of fact, I know they do.

...

Some of the above is officially, "Hard".
But it would be, IMHO, Best List Management Practices.

Aloha,
Michael.
--
Michael J Wise | Microsoft | Spam Analysis | "Your Spam Specimen Has
Been Processed." | Got the Junk Mail Reporting Tool ?

-----Original Message-----
From: mailop [mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org] On Behalf Of
rich...@flowmailer.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 2:22 AM
To: mailop@mailop.org
Subject: Re: [mailop] Microsoft Junk Mail Reporting Program

Handling FBL -although we appreciate the effort- has been a pain for
us as well. Our customers and their recipients are also usually
unaware of what's going on when they use the Junk button as a quick
delete option.
We block those FBL reported recipients, but that leads to many
questions, especially with our more diligent customers that actually
give those recipients a call to discuss the matter.

We send many transactional messages from legitimate companies that end
up not being able to reach those recipients by e-mail because of this.
It would be nice if some large inbox providers could comment on how
they think this should be handled?

Richard van Looijen

On 2016-07-27 10:55, Mark Milhollan wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jul 2016, Craig Marchant wrote:

I've got no issue with people reporting spam - it just seems like
that "this is spam" button makes it a little too easy for end users
to take absolutely zero responsibility for legitimate mailing list
subscriptions and in the process getting other legitimate senders /
mail servers in trouble because of it. It's a hard line to walk
either way I realise.

And worse, the button isn't labelled "this is spam" nor even "report
as spam", merely "Junk" which doesn't seem quite the same in the mind
of the general public -- they received a message they don't feel they
needed or are now done reading.  Still even where it says SPAM!!!
people
seem to use it because often it makes the message go away quickly with
no confirmation unlike the delete button or from having just used it
to nuke the 3 previous messages which were (friendly fire, so to 
speak).


/mark

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