We've really taken the original topic off course. But I feel that we may be taking the secondary topic off course as well.
All the talk about abuse contacts in RDAP or RP DNS - I'm not saying that these have merits... BUT... Is Microsoft/Yahoo/Gmail/*insert whatever big name email service* sending EVERY spam/abuse complaint for messages from the IP address to these contact addresses? That's part of the issue - and we're kind of seeing that within this discussion. There's a lot of different ways to publish an abuse address, so many in fact... do the entities reporting the abuse (i.e. Microsoft/Yahoo/Gmail) follow all of these? An abuse contact address is only as good as the abuse information that's being funneled into it. Another words, if Microsoft is never sending anything to the Abuse contact in RDAP... what good does it do to have an abuse contact in RDAP? Additionally, are all of these big name email service providers going to automatically send feedback to these abuse contacts for every single message that their users flag as spam or that their systems flags as spam? That's where a distinction needs to be made. I feel like the abuse contact that's being suggested in RDAP, RP, rWhois, etc - are all intended to be manually sent by a human, i.e. someone from one of these big name email service providers (Microsoft/Yahoo/Gmail). And I don't really see them having humans tasked with manually sending out these abuse notices for every spam message that an IP address sends. That's where I feel feedback loops are more automated and generally better equipped to notify the difference makers that can really take action on the spam/abuse. An example situation would be, if Microsoft/Hotmail/Outlook is getting spam from one of my servers - I'd very much like to know about it. I'd very much like to see the headers of those messages, so that I can track down the offending account and stop it. But I can only do that if Microsoft/Hotmail/Outlook tells me that they are receiving spam from one of my servers. I can only track it down if I have some message headers to go on. If Microsoft/Hotmail/Outlook is not going to send me that notice and information... then how can I be expected to stop it? Is Microsoft/Hotmail/Outlook sending ALL of that information/notices to the abuse address in RDAP, RP, rWhois, etc? Or are they just deciding at some point that they've received too much spam from my server, that they're just going to block the IP address and never tell anyone that could potentially make a difference? On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 5:08 PM John Levine via mailop <mailop@mailop.org> wrote: > It appears that Grant Taylor via mailop <gtay...@tnetconsulting.net> said: > >-=-=-=-=-=- > >-=-=-=-=-=- > > > >On 1/17/22 11:49 AM, Scott Mutter via mailop wrote: > >> Do reverse DNS entries support the TXT structure? > > > >I can't remember the last time I used it to say with any certainty. But > >would completely expect that it would. Remember, reverse DNS is simply > >a permutation to a forward DNS query to an ARPA subdomain. > > There's no technical difference between a reverse DNS zone and any > other DNS zone. I have an MX in mine so you can send mail to me > at jo...@18.183.57.64.in-addr.arpa, just because I can. > > BUT ... > > See my previous message about RDAP. If people want to publish > contact info for their IP ranges, they can do it now in the > RIR WHOIS. The problem is that they don't want to. > > Also, in most organizations there is a great distance between the > people who run mail servers and the people who run rDNS. As often > as not, the rDNS is run by an upstream network, not the operator > themselves. So even if it were a good idea to put RP records into > the rDNS, which it isn't (see above) the practical obstacles would > be huge. > > R's, > John > > PS: > > >> Or an IP address has to reverse back to a hostname - put the TXT record > >> in that DNS zone. > > > >I don't think it's good to /rely/ or /depend/ on PTR records resolving > >IPs to host names. > > Dunno about you, but where I am, if an IP does not have matching forward > and reverse DNS, that is a very strong signal that it's not supposed to > be hosting a server and you don't want to accept mail from it. > _______________________________________________ > mailop mailing list > mailop@mailop.org > https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop >
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