On Jun 20, 2013, at 8:14 AM, Noah Slater <[email protected]> wrote:
> Sebastian, > > Thanks for the wrap up. I am happy with the way we proceeded here. It was a > good compromise. > > As for the process stuff: Apache — as a community — uses > discussion-lead consensus-based decision-making. (And formal voting is just > one manifestation of that.) This should permeate everything we do. Every > list, in other words. > > So the question isn't "where can votes happen?" (answer: everywhere Apache > people exist!) but "where must certain types of decision be made?" > > I think we've established through past discussions around event organising, > etc, that any sort of decision-making process in relation to marketing, the > website, events, and branding, can, and probably should, happen on > marketing@. There is no need to CC dev@. Agreed, but Rohit's vote on the book [VOTE] showed that he was thinking any votes happens on dev@ We just need to clarify this and inform the other lists. -sebastien > > Any general, project-level stuff can be handled on dev@. In fact, "when in > doubt, do it on dev@" is a decent rule of thumb. > > Perhaps we have not documented that marketing@ list is a suitable forum for > certain types of decision making. It would probably be a good idea to do > so. (But not doing so in the short term does not make existing decisions > invalid. There is plenty of evidence in the mailing list archives to > demonstrate the PMC is happy with this.) > > As for the by-laws. I agree. I will post a patch in a few minutes. > > > > On 17 June 2013 21:05, Rohit Yadav <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 12:30 AM, Chip Childers >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Adding Rohit via his a.o address. >>> >> >> Thanks, yes please refrain from using my old/new corporate email addresses. >> >> I'll stick to my initial vote and would propose listing the books on the >> wiki immediately. >> >> Cheers. >> >> >> >>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 02:52:31PM -0400, Sebastien Goasguen wrote: >>>> Ilya, Rohit, Joe, Noah, >>>> >>>> I am re-sending this with you in CC to make sure you read it. >>>> >>>> Since there was little response the wiki link has been established >>> already, but I would like to get feedback on explicitly modifying the >>> bylaws to explain that marketing topics happen on the marketing list and >>> that Lazy majority or Lazy 2/3 majority will be required. >>>> >>>> -sebastien >>>> >>>> On Jun 12, 2013, at 6:12 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, (note only marketing@) >>>>> >>>>> Apologies for a belated wrap up of this important vote. Please reply >>> in-line. >>>>> >>>>> [RESULTS]: >>>>> >>>>> +1 : 24 (Sebastien, Giles, Nguyen, Ryan, Kelly, Geoff, Roland, Alex, >>> Nehal, Sapm4kev, Gaspare, Kelcey, José,OutbackDingo, Todd, Eric, David, >>> Kimihiko, Radhika, Clayton, Chip, Chiradeep, Tariq, Mark) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -0 : 2 (Noah, Joe also vote +0) >>>>> >>>>> -1: 2 (Rohit, Ilya) >>>>> >>>>> [SUMMARY]: >>>>> >>>>> Rohit would be +1 on listing in the wiki, Ilya would be +0 on listing >>> in the wiki. >>>>> So it seems that we would have unanimous consensus for listing on the >>> wiki, even though there is a strong majority for the website. >>>>> >>>>> [DISCUSS]: >>>>> >>>>> I felt it was important to poll folks that are only on dev@ or >> users@and the results show that some folks who have never voted, got >> engaged in >>> this VOTE. This is a very positive side effect despite the confusion >> that I >>> created by bcc all lists. >>>>> >>>>> Our bylaws [1] do not cover votes on non-technical matters, so while >>> we have lazy majority on this vote it seems that this situation is not >>> covered by the bylaws. Moreover section 3.1.1 of bylaws says that >> decisions >>> on the project happen on dev@, so it seems that votes even on >> marketing@are not allowed (unsure about this). >>>>> >>>>> I propose the following: >>>>> >>>>> 1-To move forward without having to re-cast a vote, I propose to list >>> immediately the books on the Wiki, and inform Packt. I just created the >>> page [2] >>>>> 2- If people agree that we have a bylaw "loophole", we need to modify >>> the bylaws to allow votes on marketing@ and agree on using Lazy majority >>> or Lazy 2/3 majority. >>>>> >>>>> Once we agree, I will inform users@ and dev@ and invite folks who >>> participated in this vote to join marketing@ >>>>> >>>>> 3- We could then re-cast a vote to list on the website >>>>> >>>>> [1] http://cloudstack.apache.org/bylaws.html >>>>> [2] >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/CloudStack+Books >>>>> >>>>> Ps: fwiw, I think this is overly complicated but the only way forward >>> in the apache way. >>>>> >>>>> -Sebastien >>>> >>>> >>> >> > > > > -- > NS
