I think that's a great idea. There's different stakeholders with different goals.
@dev - development of the product @users - configuration & usability @marketing - promoting & increasing the mindshare of Apache CloudStack Personally, I'm 3/4 interested in marketing, 1/5 interested in users & 1/20 in dev (think I have the ratios correct on that..) The ratios may move over time but I'm rarely going to look at the dev list. On 6/20/13 8:14 AM, "Noah Slater" <[email protected]> wrote: >Sebastian, > >Thanks for the wrap up. I am happy with the way we proceeded here. It was >a >good compromise. > >As for the process stuff: Apache ‹ as a community ‹ uses >discussion-lead consensus-based decision-making. (And formal voting is >just >one manifestation of that.) This should permeate everything we do. Every >list, in other words. > >So the question isn't "where can votes happen?" (answer: everywhere Apache >people exist!) but "where must certain types of decision be made?" > >I think we've established through past discussions around event >organising, >etc, that any sort of decision-making process in relation to marketing, >the >website, events, and branding, can, and probably should, happen on >marketing@. There is no need to CC dev@. > >Any general, project-level stuff can be handled on dev@. In fact, "when in >doubt, do it on dev@" is a decent rule of thumb. > >Perhaps we have not documented that marketing@ list is a suitable forum >for >certain types of decision making. It would probably be a good idea to do >so. (But not doing so in the short term does not make existing decisions >invalid. There is plenty of evidence in the mailing list archives to >demonstrate the PMC is happy with this.) > >As for the by-laws. I agree. I will post a patch in a few minutes. > > > >On 17 June 2013 21:05, Rohit Yadav <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 12:30 AM, Chip Childers >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >> > Adding Rohit via his a.o address. >> > >> >> Thanks, yes please refrain from using my old/new corporate email >>addresses. >> >> I'll stick to my initial vote and would propose listing the books on the >> wiki immediately. >> >> Cheers. >> >> >> >> > On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 02:52:31PM -0400, Sebastien Goasguen wrote: >> > > Ilya, Rohit, Joe, Noah, >> > > >> > > I am re-sending this with you in CC to make sure you read it. >> > > >> > > Since there was little response the wiki link has been established >> > already, but I would like to get feedback on explicitly modifying the >> > bylaws to explain that marketing topics happen on the marketing list >>and >> > that Lazy majority or Lazy 2/3 majority will be required. >> > > >> > > -sebastien >> > > >> > > On Jun 12, 2013, at 6:12 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> > > >> > > > Hi, (note only marketing@) >> > > > >> > > > Apologies for a belated wrap up of this important vote. Please >>reply >> > in-line. >> > > > >> > > > [RESULTS]: >> > > > >> > > > +1 : 24 (Sebastien, Giles, Nguyen, Ryan, Kelly, Geoff, Roland, >>Alex, >> > Nehal, Sapm4kev, Gaspare, Kelcey, José,OutbackDingo, Todd, Eric, >>David, >> > Kimihiko, Radhika, Clayton, Chip, Chiradeep, Tariq, Mark) >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > -0 : 2 (Noah, Joe also vote +0) >> > > > >> > > > -1: 2 (Rohit, Ilya) >> > > > >> > > > [SUMMARY]: >> > > > >> > > > Rohit would be +1 on listing in the wiki, Ilya would be +0 on >>listing >> > in the wiki. >> > > > So it seems that we would have unanimous consensus for listing on >>the >> > wiki, even though there is a strong majority for the website. >> > > > >> > > > [DISCUSS]: >> > > > >> > > > I felt it was important to poll folks that are only on dev@ or >> users@and the results show that some folks who have never voted, got >> engaged in >> > this VOTE. This is a very positive side effect despite the confusion >> that I >> > created by bcc all lists. >> > > > >> > > > Our bylaws [1] do not cover votes on non-technical matters, so >>while >> > we have lazy majority on this vote it seems that this situation is not >> > covered by the bylaws. Moreover section 3.1.1 of bylaws says that >> decisions >> > on the project happen on dev@, so it seems that votes even on >> marketing@are not allowed (unsure about this). >> > > > >> > > > I propose the following: >> > > > >> > > > 1-To move forward without having to re-cast a vote, I propose to >>list >> > immediately the books on the Wiki, and inform Packt. I just created >>the >> > page [2] >> > > > 2- If people agree that we have a bylaw "loophole", we need to >>modify >> > the bylaws to allow votes on marketing@ and agree on using Lazy >>majority >> > or Lazy 2/3 majority. >> > > > >> > > > Once we agree, I will inform users@ and dev@ and invite folks who >> > participated in this vote to join marketing@ >> > > > >> > > > 3- We could then re-cast a vote to list on the website >> > > > >> > > > [1] http://cloudstack.apache.org/bylaws.html >> > > > [2] >> > >>https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/CloudStack+Books >> > > > >> > > > Ps: fwiw, I think this is overly complicated but the only way >>forward >> > in the apache way. >> > > > >> > > > -Sebastien >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > > >-- >NS
