On 4/12/2021 1:14 AM, Louis Proyect wrote:
China, Cuba, Vietnam had revolutions that could not be shoehorned into the writings of Marx and Engels who did believe that "revolution was to occur when the productive forces of the old society had so outgrown its property relations as to burst the old social framework."

Am I misunderstanding where you comrades are going with this? /Why aren't anti-colonial revolutions consistent with this phrase above? /

From South Africa, where I write, the crisis in the 1980s that led to an anti-colonial - albeit ultimately neoliberal - transition <https://vimeo.com/442807417> was at least to some extent a function of over-accumulated 'old-society' productive forces (explained in this teaching video <https://vimeo.com/432061413> for about 5 minutes from minute 4:30), that had outgrown the old social framework, and that needed a democratic bandage (to quell bleeding from internal social protests), plus a major spatio-temporal fix so capital could escape its low-profit moorings within a stagnant South African economy. It had to reform, or die.

I don't know the conditions of accumulation crisis in the other three countries, but the colonial mode of imperialism Luxemburg described in 1913 - where super-profits were made by capitalist/non-capitalist interactions - obviously came under extreme pressure in such sites, to have such revolutionary commitments succeed. Why the hesitancy to include these revolutions within the schema of outmoded productive relations, from the /Preface to A Contribution to the Critique of Poli Econ? /

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1859/critique-pol-economy/preface.htm

   In the social production of their existence, men inevitably enter
   into definite relations, which are independent of their will, namely
   relations of production appropriate to a given stage in the
   development of their material forces of production. The totality of
   these relations of production constitutes the economic structure of
   society, the real foundation, on which arises a legal and political
   superstructure and to which correspond definite forms of social
   consciousness. The mode of production of material life conditions
   the general process of social, political and intellectual life. It
   is not the consciousness of men that determines their existence, but
   their social existence that determines their consciousness. At a
   certain stage of development, the material productive forces of
   society come into conflict with the existing relations of production
   or – this merely expresses the same thing in legal terms – with the
   property relations within the framework of which they have operated
   hitherto. From forms of development of the productive forces these
   relations turn into their fetters. Then begins an era of social
   revolution. The changes in the economic foundation lead sooner or
   later to the transformation of the whole immense superstructure.
        In studying such transformations it is always necessary to
   distinguish between the material transformation of the economic
   conditions of production, which can be determined with the precision
   of natural science, and the legal, political, religious, artistic or
   philosophic – in short, ideological forms in which men become
   conscious of this conflict and fight it out. Just as one does not
   judge an individual by what he thinks about himself, so one cannot
   judge such a period of transformation by its consciousness, but, on
   the contrary, this consciousness must be explained from the
   contradictions of material life, from the conflict existing between
   the social forces of production and the relations of production. No
   social order is ever destroyed before all the productive forces for
   which it is sufficient have been developed, and new superior
   relations of production never replace older ones before the material
   conditions for their existence have matured within the framework of
   the old society.






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