Hi y'all - I worked in the UK electricity supply industry when the Govt. owned it. I'll be getting a pension soon! I have firsthand knowledge of the Gas Dept. and the Coal Mines when they were Govt. owned. A common thread was "work or play" - this was the phrase everyone used to take their many paid days off with hardly an excuse. These "businesses" were the most inefficient and wasteful that I've ever seen. I'm told that today it is a whole different ballgame. Privatization.
I have two local instances of Govt. jobs for life that I can report. Perhaps you have seen in other posts here that a local University of Memphis teacher and an Evangelical Christian School teacher (who we debate weekly) both report that teachers become permanent employees after 3 years. A personal experience concerns my mailman. I have written extensively about him on another website, and I'd rather not detail all the problems again. Suffice it to say that he is the worst on the planet and I've tried complaining (believe me I'm a complainer) as far as I can go. The standard answer is that short of criminal charges, he has the job for life. It is for these reasons in two different countries that I have little respect for nationalized industries. I have nothing against your practice of "At Will." A business owner would be foolish to fire a good worker - as I've said, they are worth their weight in gold and that is becoming a good commodity to own today. I should have been clearer that I live in a rural area, and the first 40 miles of my drive to Memphis is mostly trees and possums. On Oct 10, 12:18 pm, ornamentalmind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > “I worked in a Nationalized industry and the consensus amongst > employees was that "The Govt. has deep pockets - let's get all we > can." I had relatives and friends in other Nationalized industries who > reported the same attitude - days off with pay - theft of materials - > pensions for life - I really could go on about the difficulty in > terminating staff, the creation of new positions to fulfill some > unnecessary need. Perhaps it is different in your neck of the woods > but even here in Tennessee, I'm told that teachers cannot be > terminated after 3 years of service. Of course, motivation ceases > after 3 years.” – clog > > A few things about your thoughts here clog…first, I’m quite interested > in which industry (s) you are talking about. I know that the attitudes > you mention about ‘deep pockets’ etc. hold true for public and/or > private employees. This from direct personal experience and includes > even the very smallest of private employers, with one, apparently > ‘rich’ owner. In fact, he was poor and had legal judgments against him > prohibiting his ownership of anything without it being confiscated. > This includes theft, which IF one does an honest study, one will find > runs across all of society in all economic areas and all venues. The > same is true for time off with pay, which, if I understand your view > of a democratic business would always be offered and supported by the > owner. The same would be true for pensions, which, sadly, have gone > the way of the dodo bird. They used to exist, say in the US auto > industry, (NOT a government industry, - yet. After the next phase of > the bailout it may be.) of course, one can see how this ‘being nice’ > to employees has affected them. This said, the failure of Flint > Michigan’s auto industry was not caused by the worker. It was caused > by the unilateral judgments and rule by fiat of top management. CEOs > mainly. > > Continuing about your attitude about difficulty in termination of > staff…again, IF the employer were not draconian and dictator like, > this should not be an issue, should it? I’m not saying that many > positions are not needed, however much of my time in the private > sector showed that unless these positions were held by family and/or > lovers, most likely they would be eliminated. While in a State > position, for over a decade, I watched the continual restructuring of > systems and departments with the eye for leanness in most cases. While > in a non-profit organization, I watched people be fired on the spot > because there was no more funding available. While a CFO, I had to > ‘let go’ employees for many reasons and seldom hesitated. So, from > where I sit, your experience/attitude does not match my reality. > Further, having family members in Mid-West state educational systems, > I wouldn’t wish their recent (a couple of decades) treatment on > anyone! > > “I'm shocked to learn that thousands apply for every position in your > area - maybe the Govt. figures are right. If I drive the 50 miles to > Memphis, I will be sure to see two or three "now hiring" signs en > route. This has been the case in the 21 years that I've been here. Of > course, these are restaurant jobs and the like, but still, they exist. > I do not know a single large store such as Home Depot, Kroger, Wal > Mart etc. that does not have a computer terminal near the door > inviting applications. Why such a drastic difference across the > country? I'll have to look into this.” – clog > > I don’t know which route you take clog, but two signs, an average of > one per every 25 miles is not exactly a business boom nor a plethora > of employment opportunities! And, yes, a few of us would rather not > say ‘Do you want fries with that?’ instead of using our decades worth > of skills, leaving such jobs for those who can do little else. This > said, I’ve even delivered sandwiches, painted walls, been a grill cook > etc. when necessary. > When you trot out Wal Mart (a TRULY draconian company) and others > along with computer terminals near doors inviting applications, I > wonder if you ever take the time to wonder 1. Why are there computer > terminals? 2. Why are they near the door? 3. Why are they available > for self entry? 4. Why, IF there are jobs available does not the HR > department want to talk directly with applicants? Etc. > > When analyzed, and since you have been involved in businesses, one can > only conclude that these terminals are there mainly to 1. Save paper > and storage costs related to applications 2. Save employee costs > handing out, collecting and answering employment questions and 3. To > give applicants something to do, a type of ‘hope’ that they can gain > employment there. 4. Oh, yes, MAYBE a couple a month may be culled > from the data base for interviews, said ‘culling’ being automated, > rejecting hundreds, perhaps thousands with nary a care in the world. > > So, overall, I strongly suggest that such ‘invitations’ to apply are > false choices and/or opportunities. > > Do look into the differences across the country when it comes to > employment, it would be educational if nothing else. One small heads > up I’ll share with you, here in Oregon, we are an “At will” state when > it comes to employment. A quick translation of this is that the > employer can hire and fire all employees ‘at will’. Laws associated > with employment differ from state to state and in some cases even down > to the county level. > > Enjoy! > > On Oct 10, 8:32 am, Clogtowner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Hi y'all - my use of the term "support of the people" was meant to > > relate just to businesses, in that those who offer a fair policy to > > their employees, are never short of good workers and thus have the > > support of the people. If people vote (choose ) to work for a good > > business that is a form of democratic choice. I was saying no more > > than that. > > > I worked in a Nationalized industry and the consensus amongst > > employees was that "The Govt. has deep pockets - let's get all we > > can." I had relatives and friends in other Nationalized industries who > > reported the same attitude - days off with pay - theft of materials - > > pensions for life - I really could go on about the difficulty in > > terminating staff, the creation of new positions to fulfill some > > unnecessary need. Perhaps it is different in your neck of the woods > > but even here in Tennessee, I'm told that teachers cannot be > > terminated after 3 years of service. Of course, motivation ceases > > after 3 years. > > > I'm shocked to learn that thousands apply for every position in your > > area - maybe the Govt. figures are right. If I drive the 50 miles to > > Memphis, I will be sure to see two or three "now hiring" signs en > > route. This has been the case in the 21 years that I've been here. Of > > course, these are restaurant jobs and the like, but still, they exist. > > I do not know a single large store such as Home Depot, Kroger, Wal > > Mart etc. that does not have a computer terminal near the door > > inviting applications. Why such a drastic difference across the > > country? I'll have to look into this. > > > On Oct 10, 10:07 am, ornamentalmind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Again, I understand your belief about how businesses that are nice > > > (“fair”) to their employees should do better. Unfortunately, in my > > > experience, this is seldom the case. It is true in a few instances, > > > yes. This said, perhaps I misunderstood your phrase “support of the > > > people”. So far, I have made the assumption that you were talking > > > about employees. IF you are now shifting to all of society, well, it > > > should be a new topic. Quickly I’ll agree that IF this is your > > > intention it is a commonly presented view lacking substance. > > > > And, having worked in the private, public (State) and non-profit > > > sectors, I can say definitively that your stereotype about government > > > workers is seldom the case. > > > > IF you are attempting to make a comparison between a democracy and > > > businesses, I suggest that in the current context even a > > > representative democracy doesn’t fit the analogy. > > > > Your anecdotal story of businesses without staff members is > > > interesting. Where I live, hundreds and in some cases thousands of > > > people apply for almost every position. Those who don’t make the cut > > > remain out of work. This plus the addition of millions of more > > > unemployed as is predicted for the current global economic condition > > > results in, overall, an enormous and growing army of the unemployed. > > > This indeed is a shake up! > > > > On Oct 10, 7:36 am, Clogtowner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Hi y'all - well thank you for putting our "differences" in > > > > perspective. I'm sorry I didn't read the full article on flags. Once I > > > > saw that it was aimed at flags, I made the assumption that it did not > > > > include pins. I also didn't know about the arrests in the 60s and 70s > > > > for flag wearing which seems ridiculous. > > > > > It seems we agree about much relating to businesses. There is no way > > > > they could be democracies and must be run from the top down. Having > > > > said that, a successful business owner will realize that one of his > > > > greatest assets is his staff. If he can provide a pleasant and fair > > > > experience for his staff he will be a long way towards success. You > > > > mention Oregon and I have no personal experience of that State, but I > > > > can tell you that here, in the Mid South, workers are hard to come by. > > > > There are plenty of unemployed people but workers......... I do have > > > > experience of California and I found the rules and regs. there to be > > > > overwhelming - I moved back to Tennessee. I also have experience of > > > > businesses in Europe and I found much of the same there, where the > > > > regulations are similar to California but more strictly enforced. > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Memphis Freethought Alliance" group. 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