'Ah hope 'em poss'ms get dose jobs!
On Oct 10, 12:25 pm, Clogtowner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi y'all - I worked in the UK electricity supply industry when the
> Govt. owned it. I'll be getting a pension soon! I have firsthand
> knowledge of the Gas Dept. and the Coal Mines when they were Govt.
> owned. A common thread was "work or play" - this was the phrase
> everyone used to take their many paid days off with hardly an excuse.
> These "businesses" were the most inefficient and wasteful that I've
> ever seen. I'm told that today it is a whole different ballgame.
> Privatization.
>
> I have two local instances of Govt. jobs for life that I can report.
> Perhaps you have seen in other posts here that a local University of
> Memphis teacher and an Evangelical Christian School teacher (who we
> debate weekly) both report that teachers become permanent employees
> after 3 years. A personal experience concerns my mailman. I have
> written extensively about him on another website, and I'd rather not
> detail all the problems again. Suffice it to say that he is the worst
> on the planet and I've tried complaining (believe me I'm a complainer)
> as far as I can go. The standard answer is that short of criminal
> charges, he has the job for life.
> It is for these reasons in two different countries that I have little
> respect for nationalized industries.
>
> I have nothing against your practice of "At Will." A business owner
> would be foolish to fire a good worker - as I've said, they are worth
> their weight in gold and that is becoming a good commodity to own
> today.
>
> I should have been clearer that I live in a rural area, and the first
> 40 miles of my drive to Memphis is mostly trees and possums.
>
> On Oct 10, 12:18 pm, ornamentalmind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > “I worked in a Nationalized industry and the consensus amongst
> > employees was that "The Govt. has deep pockets - let's get all we
> > can." I had relatives and friends in other Nationalized industries who
> > reported the same attitude - days off with pay - theft of materials -
> > pensions for life - I really could go on about the difficulty in
> > terminating staff, the creation of new positions to fulfill some
> > unnecessary need. Perhaps it is different in your neck of the woods
> > but even here in Tennessee, I'm told that teachers cannot be
> > terminated after 3 years of service. Of course, motivation ceases
> > after 3 years.” – clog
>
> > A few things about your thoughts here clog…first, I’m quite interested
> > in which industry (s) you are talking about. I know that the attitudes
> > you mention about ‘deep pockets’ etc. hold true for public and/or
> > private employees. This from direct personal experience and includes
> > even the very smallest of private employers, with one, apparently
> > ‘rich’ owner. In fact, he was poor and had legal judgments against him
> > prohibiting his ownership of anything without it being confiscated.
> > This includes theft, which IF one does an honest study, one will find
> > runs across all of society in all economic areas and all venues. The
> > same is true for time off with pay, which, if I understand your view
> > of a democratic business would always be offered and supported by the
> > owner. The same would be true for pensions, which, sadly, have gone
> > the way of the dodo bird. They used to exist, say in the US auto
> > industry, (NOT a government industry, - yet. After the next phase of
> > the bailout it may be.) of course, one can see how this ‘being nice’
> > to employees has affected them. This said, the failure of Flint
> > Michigan’s auto industry was not caused by the worker. It was caused
> > by the unilateral judgments and rule by fiat of top management. CEOs
> > mainly.
>
> > Continuing about your attitude about difficulty in termination of
> > staff…again, IF the employer were not draconian and dictator like,
> > this should not be an issue, should it? I’m not saying that many
> > positions are not needed, however much of my time in the private
> > sector showed that unless these positions were held by family and/or
> > lovers, most likely they would be eliminated. While in a State
> > position, for over a decade, I watched the continual restructuring of
> > systems and departments with the eye for leanness in most cases. While
> > in a non-profit organization, I watched people be fired on the spot
> > because there was no more funding available. While a CFO, I had to
> > ‘let go’ employees for many reasons and seldom hesitated. So, from
> > where I sit, your experience/attitude does not match my reality.
> > Further, having family members in Mid-West state educational systems,
> > I wouldn’t wish their recent (a couple of decades) treatment on
> > anyone!
>
> > “I'm shocked to learn that thousands apply for every position in your
> > area - maybe the Govt. figures are right. If I drive the 50 miles to
> > Memphis, I will be sure to see two or three "now hiring" signs en
> > route. This has been the case in the 21 years that I've been here. Of
> > course, these are restaurant jobs and the like, but still, they exist.
> > I do not know a single large store such as Home Depot, Kroger, Wal
> > Mart etc. that does not have a computer terminal near the door
> > inviting applications. Why such a drastic difference across the
> > country? I'll have to look into this.” – clog
>
> > I don’t know which route you take clog, but two signs, an average of
> > one per every 25 miles is not exactly a business boom nor a plethora
> > of employment opportunities! And, yes, a few of us would rather not
> > say ‘Do you want fries with that?’ instead of using our decades worth
> > of skills, leaving such jobs for those who can do little else. This
> > said, I’ve even delivered sandwiches, painted walls, been a grill cook
> > etc. when necessary.
> > When you trot out Wal Mart (a TRULY draconian company) and others
> > along with computer terminals near doors inviting applications, I
> > wonder if you ever take the time to wonder 1. Why are there computer
> > terminals? 2. Why are they near the door? 3. Why are they available
> > for self entry? 4. Why, IF there are jobs available does not the HR
> > department want to talk directly with applicants? Etc.
>
> > When analyzed, and since you have been involved in businesses, one can
> > only conclude that these terminals are there mainly to 1. Save paper
> > and storage costs related to applications 2. Save employee costs
> > handing out, collecting and answering employment questions and 3. To
> > give applicants something to do, a type of ‘hope’ that they can gain
> > employment there. 4. Oh, yes, MAYBE a couple a month may be culled
> > from the data base for interviews, said ‘culling’ being automated,
> > rejecting hundreds, perhaps thousands with nary a care in the world.
>
> > So, overall, I strongly suggest that such ‘invitations’ to apply are
> > false choices and/or opportunities.
>
> > Do look into the differences across the country when it comes to
> > employment, it would be educational if nothing else. One small heads
> > up I’ll share with you, here in Oregon, we are an “At will” state when
> > it comes to employment. A quick translation of this is that the
> > employer can hire and fire all employees ‘at will’. Laws associated
> > with employment differ from state to state and in some cases even down
> > to the county level.
>
> > Enjoy!
>
> > On Oct 10, 8:32 am, Clogtowner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > Hi y'all - my use of the term "support of the people" was meant to
> > > relate just to businesses, in that those who offer a fair policy to
> > > their employees, are never short of good workers and thus have the
> > > support of the people. If people vote (choose ) to work for a good
> > > business that is a form of democratic choice. I was saying no more
> > > than that.
>
> > > I worked in a Nationalized industry and the consensus amongst
> > > employees was that "The Govt. has deep pockets - let's get all we
> > > can." I had relatives and friends in other Nationalized industries who
> > > reported the same attitude - days off with pay - theft of materials -
> > > pensions for life - I really could go on about the difficulty in
> > > terminating staff, the creation of new positions to fulfill some
> > > unnecessary need. Perhaps it is different in your neck of the woods
> > > but even here in Tennessee, I'm told that teachers cannot be
> > > terminated after 3 years of service. Of course, motivation ceases
> > > after 3 years.
>
> > > I'm shocked to learn that thousands apply for every position in your
> > > area - maybe the Govt. figures are right. If I drive the 50 miles to
> > > Memphis, I will be sure to see two or three "now hiring" signs en
> > > route. This has been the case in the 21 years that I've been here. Of
> > > course, these are restaurant jobs and the like, but still, they exist.
> > > I do not know a single large store such as Home Depot, Kroger, Wal
> > > Mart etc. that does not have a computer terminal near the door
> > > inviting applications. Why such a drastic difference across the
> > > country? I'll have to look into this.
>
> > > On Oct 10, 10:07 am, ornamentalmind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > Again, I understand your belief about how businesses that are nice
> > > > (“fair”) to their employees should do better. Unfortunately, in my
> > > > experience, this is seldom the case. It is true in a few instances,
> > > > yes. This said, perhaps I misunderstood your phrase “support of the
> > > > people”. So far, I have made the assumption that you were talking
> > > > about employees. IF you are now shifting to all of society, well, it
> > > > should be a new topic. Quickly I’ll agree that IF this is your
> > > > intention it is a commonly presented view lacking substance.
>
> > > > And, having worked in the private, public (State) and non-profit
> > > > sectors, I can say definitively that your stereotype about government
> > > > workers is seldom the case.
>
> > > > IF you are attempting to make a- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -...
>
> read more »
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