For the first time, I want to go to an Occam's meeting someday. Thanks to Debbie. Ironic, eh?
On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 10:25 AM, Jason (Memphis) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > The below email is a follow-up email from Debbie (a Christian) about a > discussion among Steve A, Steve W., Chris S. & Debbie after Occam's at > Huey's. I like many of her suggestions for future signs. > > The billboard has a paraphrased bible verse that MFA put along the > highway, that is, "Hate yourself and your Mama," which Jesus said in > the Gospel of Luke. > > Jason > _____________ > > Hey guys. Meant to get this out earlier in the week but have been > busy. So, a bit late, but here goes: > > I'm still not really clear what your intent and desire is with the > signs you're posting. > Chris, you talk about wanting to be educational and wanting everyone > to get along and not be divisive etc. If that's really what you want > then you're going to need to start with dialogue. I don't see how > posting slogans with random portions of scripture such as what you've > chosen invites that dialogue. Just as you think it insulting for a > pastor of a church to call all atheists immoral, I think the kinds of > slogans you're considering will only insult a belief system and way of > life that has great meaning for a lot of people. Just as you probably > don't feel 'welcomed' or 'invited' by the pastor of a church calling > you immoral, I don't think most Christians - particularly the ones who > seem so offensive to you - will be drawn to you by those kinds of > antagonistic signs. And you know they're antagonistic. Taking some > verse completely out of context and sticking it on a sign and saying > 'well, that's what the Bible says' is just antagonistic. You know > that.. > > Which brings me to Steve's motives. Steve, you seem to indicate that > you want to create dialogue but only for the purpose of convincing > 'believers' of the folly of their belief. This is where you seem to > have much in common with the above mentioned pastor. Do you really > want to get to know Christians and understand why they believe what > they do or do you just want to make them stop believing and see things > your way? A lot of pastors don't want to bother getting to know > someone and his belief system, the pastor just wants to convert him. > That sounds a lot like what you were saying the other night. > > Some churches put up signs with some pretty outrageous slogans on them > but I think the only people those signs attract are just more like > minded Christians. Those kinds of church signs 'Think it's hot here? > Hell's hotter!' don't welcome or intrigue people such as yourself. > They just make you roll your eyes. And the signs you're talking about > putting up will just make most Christians think you're all jerks at > best and probably make them angry for the worst case scenario. Which, > I have to say, does seem kind of like what you'd prefer sometimes. > It's almost as though you're looking for a fight - a reason to file > some kind of lawsuit.......... I think that's what got my Steve's > Irish temper up the other night. > > So, putting up antagonistic signs may gain you a few more atheist > members, but probably just the kind who will be as strongly prejudiced > toward Christians as the pastor's congregation is prejudiced toward > you. This seems to be in conflict with Chris's talk of us all getting > along and educating one another. > > But, regardless of your motives, I do agree if the people at > Whiteville Church (or any church) are being told that atheists are > immoral, mean, ugly, blah blah, and choosing to believe it, most > likely it is because these people have never put themselves in the > position of sitting down face to face with an actual atheist and > getting to know him/her via the much fabled 'intelligent dialogue' > that some of you claim to desire. Or perhaps, they have had > encounters with an atheist here or there but those atheists have been > of the ass hole variety and the encounter has only served to > underscore the teaching from the church that atheists are indeed all > bad.. > > I make the proposal that you have atheists in MFA who are in the same > boat - albeit on a different deck. They have never put themselves in > the position of attempting true dialogue face to face with a > Christian. Most likely they have had some negative experiences > perhaps as a child in church or with family members, etc. so they have > come to the conclusion that all Christians salivate at the thought of > 'sinners in hell' and still believe that the earth is the center of > the universe. They gather together just as the above mentioned church > folk do and blast and mock the other 'side' for its beliefs. (The > church folk are just careful to add a 'bless their hearts' at the end > of their ridicule.) I'm telling you, when I've read some of the > things written by some MFA folks I feel like I'm hearing church > people. Just substitute the word sinner for the word stupid and it's > the same thing. > > So, both groups can remain in their respective conclaves posting signs > and hurling insults across the fence or.........they could actually > come together and put faces and personalities with the titles and > labels and learn that we all are actually real people with real > feelings. It takes a certain amount of courage to do that. Most > folks, unfortunately, are more comfortable and content to interact > only with those who are like minded. I speak of both Christians and > atheists. > > This is why I think Occam's is such a unique group. I think your > friend Tom said it best when he called the group 'precious'. That's > how I feel about it. And that's why I've been so bothered by the > insanity on the website. I'm embarrassed to tell folks about the site > because of some of postings on there that in no way reflect or > represent what actually goes on at the group. If I just read the site > I would not be curious about attending the meetings. I'd just assume > it's a group of closed minded people ready to pounce on anyone with a > different belief system. Again, Chris, not what you say you want. > > Having said all that, if you do really want to use your billboard to > create true curiosity and possible opportunity for actual discussion, > I suggest a different tactic than mere negative provocation. > You asked for a list of slogans, here they are - free of charge - use > them at will. (My daughter did major in advertising and I did > occasionally help with homework.) > > > 1. Atheists: No horns - no pitchforks - just a god free world view. > or > Atheists: No horns - no pitchforks - just a different world view. > > > 2. Would you have dinner with an atheist? Luke 15:1-7 Matthew > 9:10-13 > > > 3. Do you know why you believe? We'd like to tell you why we don't. > or > Do you know why you believe in God? We'd like to tell you why we > don't. > > > 4. Atheists: We're open to hearing your views. Are you willing to > hear ours? > > > 5. Just have a little talk....with an atheist. (You'll have to trust > me on that one - it's a reference to a well known Christian song. > Church folk would definitely get it.) > > > 6. We'd like to hear your 'answer'. 1 Peter 3:15 > or > We know our answer, we'd like to hear yours. 1 Peter 3:15 > > > There will always be those who will see the word 'atheists' and > immediately leap to negative, unflattering conclusions and run for the > hills - just as some people do when they see or hear the word > 'Christian'. But if you really do want to stimulate thought and > invite communication with those who might be willing to talk, I think > you've got a better shot with these suggestions. > > > 'You can stand tall without standing on someone.' -Harriet Woods > Deborah E. > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Memphis Freethought Alliance" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
