I thought that her suggestions were good--for the most part. However, I wish the moderate Christians would step up the criticism when fundamentalists or extremists go overboard.
On Nov 3, 11:00 am, CrossBow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Never met her, but I liked what she said about the bilboards and agree with > her to a large degree. My input has been limited to grunt work and > installation of said bilboard. I understand why she believes, and am not > surprised anymore, but don't have to like it. > > been surfing the humanist net today finding balance.... > > On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 10:50 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > *I like Debbie but it amazes me that she believes in that supernatural > > stuff.* > > ** > > *J.* > > > For the first time, I want to go to an Occam's meeting someday. Thanks to > > Debbie. Ironic, eh? > > > On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 10:25 AM, Jason (Memphis) < > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> The below email is a follow-up email from Debbie (a Christian) about a > >> discussion among Steve A, Steve W., Chris S. & Debbie after Occam's at > >> Huey's. I like many of her suggestions for future signs. > > >> The billboard has a paraphrased bible verse that MFA put along the > >> highway, that is, "Hate yourself and your Mama," which Jesus said in > >> the Gospel of Luke. > > >> Jason > >> _____________ > > >> Hey guys. Meant to get this out earlier in the week but have been > >> busy. So, a bit late, but here goes: > > >> I'm still not really clear what your intent and desire is with the > >> signs you're posting. > >> Chris, you talk about wanting to be educational and wanting everyone > >> to get along and not be divisive etc. If that's really what you want > >> then you're going to need to start with dialogue. I don't see how > >> posting slogans with random portions of scripture such as what you've > >> chosen invites that dialogue. Just as you think it insulting for a > >> pastor of a church to call all atheists immoral, I think the kinds of > >> slogans you're considering will only insult a belief system and way of > >> life that has great meaning for a lot of people. Just as you probably > >> don't feel 'welcomed' or 'invited' by the pastor of a church calling > >> you immoral, I don't think most Christians - particularly the ones who > >> seem so offensive to you - will be drawn to you by those kinds of > >> antagonistic signs. And you know they're antagonistic. Taking some > >> verse completely out of context and sticking it on a sign and saying > >> 'well, that's what the Bible says' is just antagonistic. You know > >> that.. > > >> Which brings me to Steve's motives. Steve, you seem to indicate that > >> you want to create dialogue but only for the purpose of convincing > >> 'believers' of the folly of their belief. This is where you seem to > >> have much in common with the above mentioned pastor. Do you really > >> want to get to know Christians and understand why they believe what > >> they do or do you just want to make them stop believing and see things > >> your way? A lot of pastors don't want to bother getting to know > >> someone and his belief system, the pastor just wants to convert him. > >> That sounds a lot like what you were saying the other night. > > >> Some churches put up signs with some pretty outrageous slogans on them > >> but I think the only people those signs attract are just more like > >> minded Christians. Those kinds of church signs 'Think it's hot here? > >> Hell's hotter!' don't welcome or intrigue people such as yourself. > >> They just make you roll your eyes. And the signs you're talking about > >> putting up will just make most Christians think you're all jerks at > >> best and probably make them angry for the worst case scenario. Which, > >> I have to say, does seem kind of like what you'd prefer sometimes. > >> It's almost as though you're looking for a fight - a reason to file > >> some kind of lawsuit.......... I think that's what got my Steve's > >> Irish temper up the other night. > > >> So, putting up antagonistic signs may gain you a few more atheist > >> members, but probably just the kind who will be as strongly prejudiced > >> toward Christians as the pastor's congregation is prejudiced toward > >> you. This seems to be in conflict with Chris's talk of us all getting > >> along and educating one another. > > >> But, regardless of your motives, I do agree if the people at > >> Whiteville Church (or any church) are being told that atheists are > >> immoral, mean, ugly, blah blah, and choosing to believe it, most > >> likely it is because these people have never put themselves in the > >> position of sitting down face to face with an actual atheist and > >> getting to know him/her via the much fabled 'intelligent dialogue' > >> that some of you claim to desire. Or perhaps, they have had > >> encounters with an atheist here or there but those atheists have been > >> of the ass hole variety and the encounter has only served to > >> underscore the teaching from the church that atheists are indeed all > >> bad.. > > >> I make the proposal that you have atheists in MFA who are in the same > >> boat - albeit on a different deck. They have never put themselves in > >> the position of attempting true dialogue face to face with a > >> Christian. Most likely they have had some negative experiences > >> perhaps as a child in church or with family members, etc. so they have > >> come to the conclusion that all Christians salivate at the thought of > >> 'sinners in hell' and still believe that the earth is the center of > >> the universe. They gather together just as the above mentioned church > >> folk do and blast and mock the other 'side' for its beliefs. (The > >> church folk are just careful to add a 'bless their hearts' at the end > >> of their ridicule.) I'm telling you, when I've read some of the > >> things written by some MFA folks I feel like I'm hearing church > >> people. Just substitute the word sinner for the word stupid and it's > >> the same thing. > > >> So, both groups can remain in their respective conclaves posting signs > >> and hurling insults across the fence or.........they could actually > >> come together and put faces and personalities with the titles and > >> labels and learn that we all are actually real people with real > >> feelings. It takes a certain amount of courage to do that. Most > >> folks, unfortunately, are more comfortable and content to interact > >> only with those who are like minded. I speak of both Christians and > >> atheists. > > >> This is why I think Occam's is such a unique group. I think your > >> friend Tom said it best when he called the group 'precious'. That's > >> how I feel about it. And that's why I've been so bothered by the > >> insanity on the website. I'm embarrassed to tell folks about the site > >> because of some of postings on there that in no way reflect or > >> represent what actually goes on at the group. If I just read the site > >> I would not be curious about attending the meetings. I'd just assume > >> it's a group of closed minded people ready to pounce on anyone with a > >> different belief system. Again, Chris, not what you say you want. > > >> Having said all that, if you do really want to use your billboard to > >> create true curiosity and possible opportunity for actual discussion, > >> I suggest a different tactic than mere negative provocation. > >> You asked for a list of slogans, here they are - free of charge - use > >> them at will. (My daughter did major in advertising and I did > >> occasionally help with homework.) > > >> 1. Atheists: No horns - no pitchforks - just a god free world view. > >> or > >> Atheists: No horns - no pitchforks - just a different world view. > > >> 2. Would you have dinner with an atheist? Luke 15:1-7 Matthew > >> 9:10-13 > > >> 3. Do you know why you believe? We'd like to tell you why we don't. > >> or > >> Do you know why you believe in God? We'd like to tell you why we > >> don't. > > >> 4. Atheists: We're open to hearing your views. Are you willing to > >> hear ours? > > >> 5. Just have a little talk....with an atheist. (You'll have to trust > >> me on that one - it's a reference to a well known Christian song. > >> Church folk would definitely get it.) > > >> 6. We'd like to hear your 'answer'. 1 Peter 3:15 > >> or > >> We know our answer, we'd like to hear yours. 1 Peter 3:15 > > >> There will always be those who will see the word 'atheists' and > >> immediately leap to negative, unflattering conclusions and run for the > >> hills - just as some people do when they see or hear the word > >> 'Christian'. But if you really do want to stimulate thought and > >> invite communication with those who might be willing to talk, I think > >> you've got a better shot with these suggestions. > > >> 'You can stand tall without standing on someone.' -Harriet Woods > >> Deborah E. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Memphis Freethought Alliance" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
