Never met her, but I liked what she said about the bilboards and agree with her to a large degree. My input has been limited to grunt work and installation of said bilboard. I understand why she believes, and am not surprised anymore, but don't have to like it.
been surfing the humanist net today finding balance.... On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 10:50 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > *I like Debbie but it amazes me that she believes in that supernatural > stuff.* > ** > *J.* > > For the first time, I want to go to an Occam's meeting someday. Thanks to > Debbie. Ironic, eh? > > On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 10:25 AM, Jason (Memphis) < > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> >> The below email is a follow-up email from Debbie (a Christian) about a >> discussion among Steve A, Steve W., Chris S. & Debbie after Occam's at >> Huey's. I like many of her suggestions for future signs. >> >> The billboard has a paraphrased bible verse that MFA put along the >> highway, that is, "Hate yourself and your Mama," which Jesus said in >> the Gospel of Luke. >> >> Jason >> _____________ >> >> Hey guys. Meant to get this out earlier in the week but have been >> busy. So, a bit late, but here goes: >> >> I'm still not really clear what your intent and desire is with the >> signs you're posting. >> Chris, you talk about wanting to be educational and wanting everyone >> to get along and not be divisive etc. If that's really what you want >> then you're going to need to start with dialogue. I don't see how >> posting slogans with random portions of scripture such as what you've >> chosen invites that dialogue. Just as you think it insulting for a >> pastor of a church to call all atheists immoral, I think the kinds of >> slogans you're considering will only insult a belief system and way of >> life that has great meaning for a lot of people. Just as you probably >> don't feel 'welcomed' or 'invited' by the pastor of a church calling >> you immoral, I don't think most Christians - particularly the ones who >> seem so offensive to you - will be drawn to you by those kinds of >> antagonistic signs. And you know they're antagonistic. Taking some >> verse completely out of context and sticking it on a sign and saying >> 'well, that's what the Bible says' is just antagonistic. You know >> that.. >> >> Which brings me to Steve's motives. Steve, you seem to indicate that >> you want to create dialogue but only for the purpose of convincing >> 'believers' of the folly of their belief. This is where you seem to >> have much in common with the above mentioned pastor. Do you really >> want to get to know Christians and understand why they believe what >> they do or do you just want to make them stop believing and see things >> your way? A lot of pastors don't want to bother getting to know >> someone and his belief system, the pastor just wants to convert him. >> That sounds a lot like what you were saying the other night. >> >> Some churches put up signs with some pretty outrageous slogans on them >> but I think the only people those signs attract are just more like >> minded Christians. Those kinds of church signs 'Think it's hot here? >> Hell's hotter!' don't welcome or intrigue people such as yourself. >> They just make you roll your eyes. And the signs you're talking about >> putting up will just make most Christians think you're all jerks at >> best and probably make them angry for the worst case scenario. Which, >> I have to say, does seem kind of like what you'd prefer sometimes. >> It's almost as though you're looking for a fight - a reason to file >> some kind of lawsuit.......... I think that's what got my Steve's >> Irish temper up the other night. >> >> So, putting up antagonistic signs may gain you a few more atheist >> members, but probably just the kind who will be as strongly prejudiced >> toward Christians as the pastor's congregation is prejudiced toward >> you. This seems to be in conflict with Chris's talk of us all getting >> along and educating one another. >> >> But, regardless of your motives, I do agree if the people at >> Whiteville Church (or any church) are being told that atheists are >> immoral, mean, ugly, blah blah, and choosing to believe it, most >> likely it is because these people have never put themselves in the >> position of sitting down face to face with an actual atheist and >> getting to know him/her via the much fabled 'intelligent dialogue' >> that some of you claim to desire. Or perhaps, they have had >> encounters with an atheist here or there but those atheists have been >> of the ass hole variety and the encounter has only served to >> underscore the teaching from the church that atheists are indeed all >> bad.. >> >> I make the proposal that you have atheists in MFA who are in the same >> boat - albeit on a different deck. They have never put themselves in >> the position of attempting true dialogue face to face with a >> Christian. Most likely they have had some negative experiences >> perhaps as a child in church or with family members, etc. so they have >> come to the conclusion that all Christians salivate at the thought of >> 'sinners in hell' and still believe that the earth is the center of >> the universe. They gather together just as the above mentioned church >> folk do and blast and mock the other 'side' for its beliefs. (The >> church folk are just careful to add a 'bless their hearts' at the end >> of their ridicule.) I'm telling you, when I've read some of the >> things written by some MFA folks I feel like I'm hearing church >> people. Just substitute the word sinner for the word stupid and it's >> the same thing. >> >> So, both groups can remain in their respective conclaves posting signs >> and hurling insults across the fence or.........they could actually >> come together and put faces and personalities with the titles and >> labels and learn that we all are actually real people with real >> feelings. It takes a certain amount of courage to do that. Most >> folks, unfortunately, are more comfortable and content to interact >> only with those who are like minded. I speak of both Christians and >> atheists. >> >> This is why I think Occam's is such a unique group. I think your >> friend Tom said it best when he called the group 'precious'. That's >> how I feel about it. And that's why I've been so bothered by the >> insanity on the website. I'm embarrassed to tell folks about the site >> because of some of postings on there that in no way reflect or >> represent what actually goes on at the group. If I just read the site >> I would not be curious about attending the meetings. I'd just assume >> it's a group of closed minded people ready to pounce on anyone with a >> different belief system. Again, Chris, not what you say you want. >> >> Having said all that, if you do really want to use your billboard to >> create true curiosity and possible opportunity for actual discussion, >> I suggest a different tactic than mere negative provocation. >> You asked for a list of slogans, here they are - free of charge - use >> them at will. (My daughter did major in advertising and I did >> occasionally help with homework.) >> >> >> 1. Atheists: No horns - no pitchforks - just a god free world view. >> or >> Atheists: No horns - no pitchforks - just a different world view. >> >> >> 2. Would you have dinner with an atheist? Luke 15:1-7 Matthew >> 9:10-13 >> >> >> 3. Do you know why you believe? We'd like to tell you why we don't. >> or >> Do you know why you believe in God? We'd like to tell you why we >> don't. >> >> >> 4. Atheists: We're open to hearing your views. Are you willing to >> hear ours? >> >> >> 5. Just have a little talk....with an atheist. (You'll have to trust >> me on that one - it's a reference to a well known Christian song. >> Church folk would definitely get it.) >> >> >> 6. We'd like to hear your 'answer'. 1 Peter 3:15 >> or >> We know our answer, we'd like to hear yours. 1 Peter 3:15 >> >> >> There will always be those who will see the word 'atheists' and >> immediately leap to negative, unflattering conclusions and run for the >> hills - just as some people do when they see or hear the word >> 'Christian'. But if you really do want to stimulate thought and >> invite communication with those who might be willing to talk, I think >> you've got a better shot with these suggestions. >> >> >> 'You can stand tall without standing on someone.' -Harriet Woods >> Deborah E. >> >> >> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Memphis Freethought Alliance" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
