I can say that Penn State University students get to work on a lot of military contracts. Many--not all--of the innovations are from the public university professors working with students under military grant money and on military projects (so public resources are being used). That was what Penn State engineers told me. I went to a private college below state college, and we had a cooperative program with their engineering department. I am sure that NASA uses MIT and Cal-Tech students and professors to help out with their engineering/ space programs. In the Carnegie-Mellon MBA program, many of the business students work on Microsoft projects (and other corporate assignments). Graduates students and bright undergraduates are free, talented laborers who are more than happy to be used by corporations or military contractors. After graduation, a great job may be waiting in the wings that actually pays.
On Nov 3, 2:22 pm, CrossBow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I posed a question only of what innovations given by the crucible of > war...I feel you still taking the tack that I am pro-war thus perhaps > too defensive! Guess I should go further back to the original Roman > standing cross bow to make my question clearer. Is there anything you > can separate out that is solely military? I am asking for help here? > regardless of ROI...:) > > YOU got to be kidding on the "research claimed" though? That list of > Army contractors tells us where they get thier supplies commercially, > not where the research originated. So, in essence, you say Skunkworks > itself gets thier designs from a publicly funded university? That I > can't wholly believe. Sure, some of it is shared, no one disputes > that, much innovation has always been commandeered by military for > military use. Much of it is funded/started by the military after they > have leveraged the scientists doing the research into a corner, afraid > to lose their jobs if they don't capitulate. That does not mean they > don't work directly for Skunk on skunk property, paid by Skunk. Scaled > Composites is on the NYSE, but I don't own stock in it:) Skunk is much > sexier stock... > > If you can drop the anti-military set for just a moment and scrape > through to the innovations - separate them from the killing machine? > > On Nov 3, 1:58 pm, ornamentalmind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > “…War is a crucible of innovation…” – CB > > > Having been a CFO, ROI is of little value when doing a full > > situational analysis. > > > And, when it comes to R & D, almost all ‘research’ claimed by Boeing, > > Lockheed Martin, GE, etc. (see:http://www.army-technology.com/contractors/ > > ) is in fact produced in publicly funded Universities and then taken/ > > given to the private sector. Since ‘we’ have to pay for everything the > > private sector makes with no credit for our initial funding, I don’t > > see how much ‘benefit’ can be claimed, at least not in a material nor > > financial way. > > > Overall, the military budget is seen as being bloated and wasteful. > > While a political reference and only a very quick overview, some > > information can be gleaned > > at:http://www.votenader.org/issues/military-budget/ > > > As to Burt Rutan, perhaps he influenced the BD series that found it’s > > way into Budwiser commercials as well as James Bond films. And, of > > course, Scaled is owned by Northrop Grumman. Since this company is on > > the NYSE (NOC), perhaps one can get a great ROI by purchasing stock? > > > Of course, you would be owning a lot of waste too. Cases in point: > > “Based on year 2002 data, researchers at the Political Economy > > Research Institute of the University of Massachusetts identified > > Northrop Grumman as the 17th-largest corporate producer of air > > pollution in the United States; according to their study, Northrop > > Grumman facilities released more than 520,000 pounds of toxic > > chemicals into the air in that year.” > > “The corporation has also been linked to 52 superfund toxic waste > > sites.” > > “In 2003, the company was among 84 parties with which the United > > States Environmental Protection Agency, the U.S. Department of > > Justice, and the state of New York reached an estimated US$ 15 million > > settlement for the rehabilitation of the Mattiace Petrochemical > > Company Superfund site in Glen Cove, Long Island; in the same year, > > Northrop Grumman agreed to pay $33,214 after EPA inspectors found > > hazardous waste violations at the Capistrano test site.” > > > “Northrop Grumman has had to deal with multiple scandals during its > > history. The company was sued in 1999 for allegedly knowingly giving > > the Navy defective aircraft. This suit seeks $210 million in damages > > and is ongoing. Then in 2003, the company was sued for allegedly > > overcharging the U.S. government for space projects in the 1990s. > > Northrop Grumman paid $111.2 million to settle that suit out of > > court.” > > > You can also see how they figure into the purchase of political > > power.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Grumman > > > So, yes, I agree, the full story may include a lot of different issues > > and the ‘bottom line’, in this case deemed to be financial, continues > > to appear to be a big loss. > > > On Nov 3, 7:26 am, CrossBow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I did not suggest we should ever start a war to promote R&D. My > > > question better put was, if anything, what innovative gains have we > > > made? I just wonder how it rolls out on paper...it is an aspect that > > > is interesting. War is a crucible of innovation. Nasty for sure, but > > > it happens. > > > > I'm just glad folks like Burt Rutan are going to the outer limits of > > > the atmosphere with private funding, sans military. > > > > On Nov 3, 9:20 am, Clogtowner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Hi y'all - all I can see is a huge defecit. R&D can be performed in > > > > many locations. We don't need to start, and try to control, a civil > > > > war to practice on. > > > > > On Nov 3, 9:04 am, CrossBow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Wonder how all that spendage relates in a return on investment as > > > > > regards > > > > > to military research and development? what is the return on > > > > > investment? I > > > > > know of some: composites, computer security...can anyone else see any > > > > > positive return on military R&D? > > > > > > wonder if anyone has numbers on that side? [?] > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 8:43 AM, Clogtowner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi y'all - yes, it is almost as much as I lost last month during the > > > > > > debacle. > > > > > > > On Nov 1, 10:26 pm, "Jason (Memphis)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > $3,000,000,000,000 for a war is a lot of money. That is more money > > > > > > > than I made since the beginning of the war. :-) > > > > > > > > On Nov 1, 10:55 pm, ornamentalmind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > >http://www.good.is/?p=12104-Hidequotedtext- > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > 329.gif > > > > > < 1KViewDownload- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Memphis Freethought Alliance" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
