http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Skunkwork
On Nov 3, 12:47 pm, CrossBow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Right, I think I said shared, right? I just wanted to make the point that > some of it is private like Skunkworks. They do have thier own private > engineers who may build off other research and I believe they do have > some isolated stuff going on. The leveraged/forced work I was refering to > would be better placed in a time period. WWII is the era I had in mind, I > just forgot to state it. The environment was much colder according to > history -- Not saying it is the same as R&D right now, but I have a friend > that works in a research unit in the middle of the desert that did not > particularly want to go do what she is doing, but wasnt given much choice. > I have contact with her six months out of the year. Can't ask, she dosent > tell. I am so curious about what she does!!!!!! > > so you remember any particular projects you may have heard of? > > On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Jason (Memphis) > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > > > > > > I can say that Penn State University students get to work on a lot of > > military contracts. Many--not all--of the innovations are from the > > public university professors working with students under military > > grant money and on military projects (so public resources are being > > used). That was what Penn State engineers told me. I went to a > > private college below state college, and we had a cooperative program > > with their engineering department. I am sure that NASA uses MIT and > > Cal-Tech students and professors to help out with their engineering/ > > space programs. In the Carnegie-Mellon MBA program, many of the > > business students work on Microsoft projects (and other corporate > > assignments). Graduates students and bright undergraduates are free, > > talented laborers who are more than happy to be used by corporations > > or military contractors. After graduation, a great job may be > > waiting in the wings that actually pays. > > > On Nov 3, 2:22 pm, CrossBow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I posed a question only of what innovations given by the crucible of > > > war...I feel you still taking the tack that I am pro-war thus perhaps > > > too defensive! Guess I should go further back to the original Roman > > > standing cross bow to make my question clearer. Is there anything you > > > can separate out that is solely military? I am asking for help here? > > > regardless of ROI...:) > > > > YOU got to be kidding on the "research claimed" though? That list of > > > Army contractors tells us where they get thier supplies commercially, > > > not where the research originated. So, in essence, you say Skunkworks > > > itself gets thier designs from a publicly funded university? That I > > > can't wholly believe. Sure, some of it is shared, no one disputes > > > that, much innovation has always been commandeered by military for > > > military use. Much of it is funded/started by the military after they > > > have leveraged the scientists doing the research into a corner, afraid > > > to lose their jobs if they don't capitulate. That does not mean they > > > don't work directly for Skunk on skunk property, paid by Skunk. Scaled > > > Composites is on the NYSE, but I don't own stock in it:) Skunk is much > > > sexier stock... > > > > If you can drop the anti-military set for just a moment and scrape > > > through to the innovations - separate them from the killing machine? > > > > On Nov 3, 1:58 pm, ornamentalmind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > "…War is a crucible of innovation…" – CB > > > > > Having been a CFO, ROI is of little value when doing a full > > > > situational analysis. > > > > > And, when it comes to R & D, almost all 'research' claimed by Boeing, > > > > Lockheed Martin, GE, etc. (see: > >http://www.army-technology.com/contractors/ > > > > ) is in fact produced in publicly funded Universities and then taken/ > > > > given to the private sector. Since 'we' have to pay for everything the > > > > private sector makes with no credit for our initial funding, I don't > > > > see how much 'benefit' can be claimed, at least not in a material nor > > > > financial way. > > > > > Overall, the military budget is seen as being bloated and wasteful. > > > > While a political reference and only a very quick overview, some > > > > information can be gleaned at: > >http://www.votenader.org/issues/military-budget/ > > > > > As to Burt Rutan, perhaps he influenced the BD series that found it's > > > > way into Budwiser commercials as well as James Bond films. And, of > > > > course, Scaled is owned by Northrop Grumman. Since this company is on > > > > the NYSE (NOC), perhaps one can get a great ROI by purchasing stock? > > > > > Of course, you would be owning a lot of waste too. Cases in point: > > > > "Based on year 2002 data, researchers at the Political Economy > > > > Research Institute of the University of Massachusetts identified > > > > Northrop Grumman as the 17th-largest corporate producer of air > > > > pollution in the United States; according to their study, Northrop > > > > Grumman facilities released more than 520,000 pounds of toxic > > > > chemicals into the air in that year." > > > > "The corporation has also been linked to 52 superfund toxic waste > > > > sites." > > > > "In 2003, the company was among 84 parties with which the United > > > > States Environmental Protection Agency, the U.S. Department of > > > > Justice, and the state of New York reached an estimated US$ 15 million > > > > settlement for the rehabilitation of the Mattiace Petrochemical > > > > Company Superfund site in Glen Cove, Long Island; in the same year, > > > > Northrop Grumman agreed to pay $33,214 after EPA inspectors found > > > > hazardous waste violations at the Capistrano test site." > > > > > "Northrop Grumman has had to deal with multiple scandals during its > > > > history. The company was sued in 1999 for allegedly knowingly giving > > > > the Navy defective aircraft. This suit seeks $210 million in damages > > > > and is ongoing. Then in 2003, the company was sued for allegedly > > > > overcharging the U.S. government for space projects in the 1990s. > > > > Northrop Grumman paid $111.2 million to settle that suit out of > > > > court." > > > > > You can also see how they figure into the purchase of political > > > > power.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Grumman > > > > > So, yes, I agree, the full story may include a lot of different issues > > > > and the 'bottom line', in this case deemed to be financial, continues > > > > to appear to be a big loss. > > > > > On Nov 3, 7:26 am, CrossBow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > I did not suggest we should ever start a war to promote R&D. My > > > > > question better put was, if anything, what innovative gains have we > > > > > made? I just wonder how it rolls out on paper...it is an aspect that > > > > > is interesting. War is a crucible of innovation. Nasty for sure, > > but > > > > > it happens. > > > > > > I'm just glad folks like Burt Rutan are going to the outer limits of > > > > > the atmosphere with private funding, sans military. > > > > > > On Nov 3, 9:20 am, Clogtowner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi y'all - all I can see is a huge defecit. R&D can be performed in > > > > > > many locations. We don't need to start, and try to control, a civil > > > > > > war to practice on. > > > > > > > On Nov 3, 9:04 am, CrossBow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Wonder how all that spendage relates in a return on investment as > > regards > > > > > > > to military research and development? what is the return on > > investment? I > > > > > > > know of some: composites, computer security...can anyone else see > > any > > > > > > > positive return on military R&D? > > > > > > > > wonder if anyone has numbers on that side? [?] > > > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 8:43 AM, Clogtowner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi y'all - yes, it is almost as much as I lost last month > > during the > > > > > > > > debacle. > > > > > > > > > On Nov 1, 10:26 pm, "Jason (Memphis)" < > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > $3,000,000,000,000 for a war is a lot of money. That is more > > money > > > > > > > > > than I made since the beginning of the war. :-) > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 1, 10:55 pm, ornamentalmind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >http://www.good.is/?p=12104-Hidequotedtext- > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > 329.gif > > > > > > > < 1KViewDownload- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Memphis Freethought Alliance" group. 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