"Smoke a J and you will understand " - Human I think I've heard that there is a short term memory issue.........
On Nov 12, 5:38 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hey dude, > > Smoke a J and you will understand > > J. > > “I am no expert on meditation, neuroscience or psychology- these are > just logical observations and presumptions that I have.”- Preston > > Hi Preston. I accept that these are presumptions (beliefs) that you > have. I guess what I was wondering was what had led you to hold these > beliefs. That is, IF there is anything other than an unexamined > assumption (presumption) that isn’t based on anything. Yet, you do say > that they are ‘logical observations’. I question that. (not you) In > other words, I’m addressing your logic and/or thought processes here > rather than any attack on the ‘man’. > > In that spirit, I’ll try again. Is there any foundation upon which you > come to these conclusions? IF so, would you please list a few of those > assumptions (axioms)? If not, that is fine. I’m just doing my best for > some clarity here. > > Thanks again! > > I guess that in the spirit of egalitarianism, I should present some of > my thinking. First, in no way am I sure about whether any specific > state is exclusive to either being drug induced or meditation induced. > My guess is that any state could be achieved through meditation > including those that are drug induced. I do feel quite sure that the > reverse is not the case. Again, only opinions. I base these guesses > upon many decades of meditation and study about levels and states of > consciousness. I won’t present my experience or lack thereof when it > comes to drugs in a public forum, however, I do have many friends who > have used almost every possible entheogen. This runs the gambit from > iowaska to grass, from opiates to caffeine, from tobacco to > psilocybin, from mescaline to alcohol, from sugar to LSD. Of course, > this is in no way a complete list and I don’t know every drug used as > an entheogen. I also did use the word in a more inclusive sense than > is common for which I apologize. I did use it for those drugs not > necessarily partaken for spiritual states too. This conflation, I’m > sure has muddied the waters. > > That aside, I will say that I’m sure that many states can be achieved > quicker by drug use. And, in no way would I advocate it for numerous > reasons. > > So, perhaps if we continue this discussion, we should set aside > different classes such as: > Entheogens > Prescription drugs for ‘therapeutic’ use. > “Recreational” drugs. > > Of course, in one sense they are all drugs that alter the human psyche > and are similar/the same. In another, perhaps such an analysis could > help us gain more clarity on the issue. > > So, I anxiously await your response to my main question! > > On Nov 12, 4:28 pm, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > First, let me dispense with the term entheogen. I am not that familiar > with > > it so I'll stick to that with which I am familiar. > > Yes, I am speaking in general. > > There are some "states of mind", namely hallucinogenically induced, that I > > do not think could be duplicated or acheived any other way. I also think > > that some mental states could be acheived by either drugs, meditation or > > some other mental discipline. > > Conversely, I am sure that one could acheive some mental states via > > meditation, etc. that would be hard to fabricate with drugs. In addition, > > it seems to me that the process of reaching such levels is crucial to the > > result and its given benefit. Simply taking a drug does not confer that > > advantage. > > Experimental drug use (or perhaps psychologically therapeutic drug use) can > > lead to a differing perspective of the world and life because it changes > > your perspective radically. Call it enlightening or destructive depending > > on the context of usage. > > I am no expert on meditation, neuroscience or psychology- these are just > > logical observations and presumptions that I have. > > > Preston > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "ornamentalmind" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Memphis Freethought Alliance" > > <[email protected]> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:48 PM > > Subject: Re: Romancing the Stoned > > > “…yet there may be some states that cannot be accessed by non- > > entheogenic means and vice-versa…” – Preston > > > Preston, I’ll assume that you are talking in general…by that I mean > > I’ll guess you are generalizing about all people and not some specific > > person(s) you know. Given that, exactly what states do you believe can > > only be accessed by entheogens? I will leave out all psychotic ones > > for now. And, assuming that you will have some sort of a list, I’ll > > further ask how you come to the conclusion(s) about entheogenic states > > and their exclusivity. > > > On Nov 11, 7:13 pm, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Quite true, yet there may be some states that cannot be accessed by > > > non-entheogenic means and vice-versa. Granted, the path without > ingestion, > > > contact or inhalation requires discipline and therefore probably has > > > benefits without the bad consequences of exogenous chemicals. > > > > Preston > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "ornamentalmind" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "Memphis Freethought Alliance" > > > <[email protected]> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 6:54 PM > > > Subject: Re: Romancing the Stoned > > > > "... Experimenting with altered states can be very enlightening; you > > > just have to be sure of the situation you are in when you do. ..." - > > > Prestone > > > > While entheogens have been used 'forever', in no way are they a > > > requirement for enlightened states. > > > > On Nov 11, 1:46 pm, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > If it were legal, I think it would be fine recreationally. Triumph of > > > > moderation is the key here. Experimenting with altered states can be > > > > very > > > > enlightening; you just have to be sure of the situation you are in when > > > > you do. The adage "Don't let the situation control you rather you > > > > control > > > > the situation" applies here. Driving around in a car while on acid is > a > > > > bad choice; putting yourself in a safe environment with a designated > > > > sober > > > > while tripping is a better choice. But most "experiencing" is illegal > so > > > > that makes it a bad choice in general. > > > > > BTW, chemically speaking, mary jane is a hallucinogen. > > > > > Prestone > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: CrossBow > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:39 PM > > > > Subject: Re: Romancing the Stoned > > > > > Hahaha! funny think! > > > > > I would agree about the gateway theory... but - I have turned down > about > > > > 100 bales of marijuana approx. in my short life, and was probably > > > > enebriated most of that time. Living with musicians and artists will do > > > > that. I never did coke, heroin, or anything else. My own curious > > > > cocktail > > > > of brain chemicals have been adventure enough to keep me barely > > > > surviving. > > > > I think all those love chemicals are dangerous, and cause more harm > than > > > > good for some. Imagine overload on the oxytocin! serotonin! whew! Makes > > > > it > > > > easy to fall in love for some and not so good for others. Evolution is > a > > > > bitch:) > > > > > On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 2:29 PM, ornamentalmind > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Oh, I believe in the gateway theory....and to that end, believe that > > > > all milk should be outlawed! :-) > > > > > On Nov 11, 12:16 pm, CrossBow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Big Pharm does not seem to want much investigation into anything that > > > > > isn't > > > > > synthetically produced does it? Wasn't it the Rockefeller's and the > > > > > Carnegie's that started pushing modern medicine/pills that buried the > > > > > apothecary? > > > > > > My mother grew up on a road called "Hemp Patch", and no, that is not > > > > > what is > > > > > wrong with me:) I'm with you on decriminalization and I don't > believe > > > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > gateway theory either. > > > > > > seems like everyone I knew at one time had a pocket full of vicodin! > > > > > made > > > > > me TOO sleepy.. > > > > > > here is a site for that opiate of the masses...luv: > > > > > >http://www.oxytocin.org/oxytoc/love-science.html > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 1:50 PM, ornamentalmind > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > > > > > > "…Think it will legalize?" – CB > > > > > > > It is quite difficult to tell. Not in the near future would be my > > > > > > guess. It is a very complex situation. As a kid, I heard about the > > > > > > green gel that could be purchased OTC that was mostly hash. Of > > > > > > course, > > > > > > Coke used to have real coke in it. The snake oils of the past were > > > > > > quite often even more addictive than much on the market today. The > > > > > > current 'drugs' that are most addictive fall in the sweetener > > > > > > categories. I'm leaving out the obvious things like cigs, alcohol > > > > > > and > > > > > > the illegal drugs along with the 'legal' prescribed drugs. > > > > > > > I would guess that most of you have seen 'Reefer Madness'? Woody > > > > > > Harrelson's movie 'Grass' is a great view of the history in the US. > > > > > >http://worldfilm.about.com/library/00nowplaying/blgrass.htm > > > > > >http://www.sphinxproductions.com/pages/film_grass.html > > > > > >http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0214730/ > > > > > > > He appears in a new movie about the topic too: > > > > > >http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0417750/ > > > > > > > Over the decades, along with a large group of people in the US, my > > > > > > view is that at the very least this plant should be decriminalized. > > > > > > I > > > > > > won't go into all of > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Memphis Freethought Alliance" group. 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