I think that you are correct that there are a lot of vested interests
(political, corporate and others) that would not like to see thorium
reactors. However we have reached a point in American political life where
citizen opinion and action are reaching a "critical mass" and can have a
powerful effect on government policy. Look at how phone calls stopped the
illegal alien legalization in its tracks under the Bush administration.
Look at how the coming November elections are shaping up.
I would like to see this happen with this chance to create inexpensive power
generation.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Dieselhead
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 3:40 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Nuclear power
I am not a nuclear physicist either.
As I see it, here is the big problem, other than
commercializing the technology:
"You can run civilisation on thorium for hundreds
of thousands of years, and it's essentially free.
You don't have to deal with uranium cartels," he
said."
If the utility companies and EPRI can't figure
out a reason to force regulators think that
Thorium power is more valuable than current
power sources, they will fight it tooth and
nail. They don't like "essentially free" and
they have huge investments in the status quo.
A more likely route is that china will probably
commercialize it and then charge our power
companies more than what current electric
production costs, and they can "justify" raising
the rates.
See: "Brussels turned to its technical experts,
who happened to be French because the French
dominate the EU's nuclear industry. "They didn't
want competition because they had made a huge
investment in the old technology," he said."
That is exactly what we can expect fmor the
utilities, and EPRI in the US.
Disruptive technology only can be established in
a competitive environment (not what our utilities
are, they are "authorized monopolies" and they
like it that way) or if the technology is made
available to the populous for a reasonable (very
competitive) price.
This technology would be more disruptive than any
yet invented, IMHO It is most likely to be
adopted in remote areas where electricity is not
currently available. (the utility companies have
no dog in that fight.)
I know there's at least one nuclear physicist on
this list, so what do you think of this?
Mitch
There is no certain bet in nuclear physics but
work by Nobel laureate Carlo Rubbia at CERN
(European Organization for Nuclear Research) on
the use of thorium as a cheap, clean and safe
alternative to uranium in reactors may be the
magic bullet we have all been hoping for, though
we have barely begun to crack the potential of
solar power.
Dr Rubbia says a tonne of the silvery metal -
named after the Norse god of thunder, who also
gave us Thor's day or Thursday - produces as
much energy as 200 tonnes of uranium, or
3,500,000 tonnes of coal. A mere fistful would
light London for a week.
Thorium eats its own hazardous waste. It can
even scavenge the plutonium left by uranium
reactors, acting as an eco-cleaner. "It's the
Big One," said Kirk Sorensen, a former NASA
rocket engineer and now chief nuclear
technologist at Teledyne Brown Engineering.
"Once you start looking more closely, it blows
your mind away. You can run civilisation on
thorium for hundreds of thousands of years, and
it's essentially free. You don't have to deal
with uranium cartels," he said.
Thorium is so common that miners treat it as a
nuisance, a radioactive by-product if they try
to dig up rare earth metals. The US and
Australia are full of the stuff. So are the
granite rocks of Cornwall. You do not need much:
all is potentially usable as fuel, compared to
just 0.7pc for uranium.
After the Manhattan Project, US physicists in
the late 1940s were tempted by thorium for use
in civil reactors. It has a higher neutron yield
per neutron absorbed. It does not require
isotope separation, a big cost saving. But by
then America needed the plutonium residue from
uranium to build bombs.
"They were really going after the weapons," said
Professor Egil Lillestol, a world authority on
the thorium fuel-cycle at CERN. "It is almost
impossible make nuclear weapons out of thorium
because it is too difficult to handle. It
wouldn't be worth trying." It emits too many
high gamma rays.
You might have thought that thorium reactors
were the answer to every dream but when CERN
went to the European Commission for development
funds in 1999-2000, they were rebuffed.
Brussels turned to its technical experts, who
happened to be French because the French
dominate the EU's nuclear industry. "They didn't
want competition because they had made a huge
investment in the old technology," he said.
Another decade was lost. It was a sad triumph of
vested interests over scientific progress. "We
have very little time to waste because the world
is running out of fossil fuels. Renewables can't
replace them. Nuclear fusion is not going work
for a century, if ever," he said.
The Norwegian group Aker Solutions has bought Dr
Rubbia's patent for the thorium fuel-cycle, and
is working on his design for a proton
accelerator at its UK operation.
Victoria Ashley, the project manager, said it
could lead to a network of pint-sized 600MW
reactors that are lodged underground, can supply
small grids, and do not require a safety
citadel. It will take £2bn to build the first
one, and Aker needs £100mn for the next test
phase.
The UK has shown little appetite for what it
regards as a "huge paradigm shift to a new
technology". Too much work and sunk cost has
already gone into the next generation of
reactors, which have another 60 years of life.
So Aker is looking for tie-ups with the US,
Russia, or China. The Indians have their own
>projects - none yet built - dating from days
when they switched to thorium because their
weapons programme prompted a uranium ban.
America should have fewer inhibitions than
Europe in creating a leapfrog technology. The US
allowed its nuclear industry to stagnate after
Three Mile Island in 1979.
Anti-nuclear neorosis is at last ebbing. The
White House has approved $8bn in loan guarantees
for new reactors, yet America has been strangely
passive. Where is the superb confidence that put
a man on the moon?
A few US pioneers are exploring a truly radical
shift to a liquid fuel based on molten-fluoride
salts, an idea once pursued by US physicist
Alvin Weinberg at Oak Ridge National Lab in
Tennessee in the 1960s. The original documents
were retrieved by Mr Sorensen.
Moving away from solid fuel may overcome some of
thorium's "idiosyncracies". "You have to use the
right machine. You don't use diesel in a petrol
car: you build a diesel engine," said Mr
Sorensen.
Thorium-fluoride reactors can operate at
atmospheric temperature. "The plants would be
much smaller and less expensive. You wouldn't
need those huge containment domes because
there's no pressurized water in the reactor.
It's close-fitting," he said.
Nuclear power could become routine and
unthreatening. But first there is the barrier of
establishment prejudice.
When Hungarian scientists led by Leo Szilard
tried to alert Washington in late 1939 that the
Nazis were working on an atomic bomb, they were
brushed off with disbelief. Albert Einstein
interceded through the Belgian queen mother,
eventually getting a personal envoy into the
Oval Office.
Roosevelt initially fobbed him off. He listened
more closely at a second meeting over breakfast
the next day, then made up his mind within
minutes. "This needs action," he told his
military aide. It was the birth of the Manhattan
Project. As a result, the US had an atomic
weapon early enough to deter Stalin from going
too far in Europe.
The global energy crunch needs equal "action".
If it works, Manhattan II could restore American
optimism and strategic leadership at a stroke:
if not, it is a boost for US science and surely
a more fruitful way to pull the US out of
perma-slump than scattershot stimulus.
Even better, team up with China and do it together, for all our sakes.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/7970619/Obama-could-kill-fossil-
fuels-overnight-with-a-nuclear-dash-for-thorium.html
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