1. Idle speed is not too low - just now adjusted a bit high (to address this problem)...prolly around 800. 2. what are other symptoms of late injection timing...don't you tend to get smoke? I never have smoke - ever. 3. Timing chain is brand new 4. rack positioner stop bolt - is that the same as the rack damper bolt? If so, already had it replaced with the new one - know exactly what you mean about THAT problem being worse hot than cold Thanks, Chris
Peter Frederick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Chris: The two problems are separate. Your idle speed is too low, the injection timing is late, or the pump is worn. I would up the idle speed a bit (this isn't just turning a screw, alas), and would check the timing chain for "stretch" -- likely you have 6-8 degrees of "stretch" and the IP is late, making things worse. The rough idle hot is partially cured by an adjustment of the rack positioner stop bolt. If you don't have the new one, replace it (I've not done this, not having a 617 turbo). The idle will smooth out as soon as you lift off the idle stop, and the problem is worse hot than cold. ] The issue is actually a weak spring for the fuel control rack, but you have to completely disassemble the IP to fix it -- it will get worse with time, and evetually may force you to get the pump worked on. Peter _______________________________________ For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net Christopher McCann, Squier Park, Kansas City, Missouri -2005 Blue Point Siamese, "Rose" -1987 300TD, 150K, "Rotkäppchen" -1985 300SD, 209K, "Wulf" -1976 240D, ?K, "AKP-Wagen" (Alternativen Kraftstoffs Prüfenlastwagen) -1972 Jacobsen 21" Turbo Vent -1971 Case 222 Hydrive, 12HP Kohler, 38" deck, Snowcaster, "One Banger" --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Nov 17 16:30:54 2005 Received: from web30015.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.201.218]) by server1.arterytc1.net with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1Ecmf0-0002ou-GL for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 17 Nov 2005 16:30:54 +0000 Received: (qmail 96660 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Nov 2005 16:30:46 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=12iC1STciCS4i8oBK3UuPhbDWtttBrR8+fM8Jzd2/ZIR+ctUQx7EDZiiZy1699IpdFCHjC9AOPVvvgvVQdcKNKF4Iq/4B73Zldg353GXkIjn9pOAOklZHSor0yPEurAouakATJU1pVI/2dZCILHroCfVrqKV8REPHUixtmaDLpc= ; Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Received: from [66.140.70.226] by web30015.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 17 Nov 2005 08:30:46 PST Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 08:30:46 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher McCann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Mercedes mailing list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: Re: [MBZ] idle insanity! X-BeenThere: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes mailing list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> List-Id: Mercedes mailing list <mercedes_striplin.net.striplin.net> List-Unsubscribe: <http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net>, <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> List-Archive: <http://striplin.net/pipermail/mercedes_striplin.net> List-Post: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> List-Help: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> List-Subscribe: <http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net>, <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 16:30:54 -0000 1. Rack damper bolt in too far - possible. As I first noticed this problem this summer when I had the old bolt replaced with the new style. This seems very likely. 2. Rack damper bolt out too far - well, this problem, (the revving idle) is new. Another lister mentioned a "worn IP"...what would indicate a worn IP? Someone also mentioned late timeing - but I think that creates smoke and I never smoke. Thanks Chris John Robbins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Christopher McCann wrote: > Two problems with the SD re: idle: > > 1. When engine is cold (not ambient brrrrrr cold, just room temp, but > worse when truly COLD) it idles fine BUT as soon as I put it in > reverse (or turn on the A/C in hot weather), the idle drops and the > car usually stalls. Will stall at about 450 RPM. Could be that your rack dampner bolt is in too far. If it is in too far it will restrict fuel too much during idle conditions... > 2. Let's say we start the car and no reverse or A/C is needed, the > idle is fine...we drive 1-3 miles. Come to a stop and the idle is > PULSATING between, say, 550-700 or so...just revving between those > two engine speeds, rhytmiically, on its own. I would say 1 complete > rev cycle per 1.5 seconds. This sounds like the rack dampner bolt is out too far.... so no idea what the problem is. Either way, sounds like it could be relayed to the rack dampner bolt (located on the back of the IP, bolt with a lock nut as well). Quick thing to do might be to adjust it one way or the other and see how it changes your problems. Proper adjustment, IIRC, is to loosen the bolt significantly, start engine, adjust bolt in until engine no longer rocks, lock in place with lock nut and hope that it starts when it's cold ;) Best of luck with it! John '79 300SD _______________________________________ For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net Christopher McCann, Squier Park, Kansas City, Missouri -2005 Blue Point Siamese, "Rose" -1987 300TD, 150K, "Rotkäppchen" -1985 300SD, 209K, "Wulf" -1976 240D, ?K, "AKP-Wagen" (Alternativen Kraftstoffs Prüfenlastwagen) -1972 Jacobsen 21" Turbo Vent -1971 Case 222 Hydrive, 12HP Kohler, 38" deck, Snowcaster, "One Banger" --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Nov 17 16:33:37 2005 Received: from web30009.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.200.72]) by server1.arterytc1.net with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1Ecmhd-0003EK-Bo for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 17 Nov 2005 16:33:37 +0000 Received: (qmail 24966 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Nov 2005 16:33:33 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=rjHRp3EJy0u27EK8nt+zOqj0YdOxIp7EaZEbD1qhCpU4xgx2mIm3XyQ2CndfuTLuvfuW+qO23FNNBf+l/MHEirBH+j4OPwyMZSEameq0WySqHzHt0tgHtIoRtSjqxr7VH31Aph1hvlprRHEr8RCvgtcYeXcIH37BMrCjrxPfVbk= ; Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Received: from [66.140.70.226] by web30009.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 17 Nov 2005 08:33:33 PST Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 08:33:33 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher McCann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Mercedes mailing list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: Re: [MBZ] idle insanity! X-BeenThere: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes mailing list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> List-Id: Mercedes mailing list <mercedes_striplin.net.striplin.net> List-Unsubscribe: <http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net>, <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> List-Archive: <http://striplin.net/pipermail/mercedes_striplin.net> List-Post: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> List-Help: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> List-Subscribe: <http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net>, <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 16:33:37 -0000 1. I have the new bolt adn the stalling started around that time (JUne) 2. rhythmic rev is new 3. 240D has the idle adjust knob - very nice. would like to put one on my SD 4. Is not IP out of calibration accompanied bby smoke? I never have smoke. 5. Worn IP - any other symptoms? Thanks Chris Marshall Booth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Christopher McCann wrote: > Two problems with the SD re: idle: > > 1. When engine is cold (not ambient brrrrrr cold, just room temp, but worse > when truly COLD) it idles fine BUT as soon as I put it in reverse (or turn > on the A/C in hot weather), the idle drops and the car usually stalls. Will > stall at about 450 RPM. > > 2. Let's say we start the car and no reverse or A/C is needed, the idle is > fine...we drive 1-3 miles. Come to a stop and the idle is PULSATING between, > say, 550-700 or so...just revving between those two engine speeds, > rhytmiically, on its own. I would say 1 complete rev cycle per 1.5 seconds. > > 3. Drive it a bit more, get the engine hot and the rhythmic idle goes away > as does the reverse stall problem. > > Took to my Indy today. He said, "Adjust Idle". OK. It was cold (engine and > 0 degrees C out), car starts, put in reverse, get halwayt out of the parking > spot - STALL. Drive a few miles to my friend's house, park it and lo and > behold, the rythmic idle rec described above. > > Obviously something other than idle adjust needs done. Is there some GIZMO > that controls idle when a load is put on (A/C, reverse (no acceleration in > reverse, just reverse and idle backwards (down hill - still stalls!))) > and/or would also cause the rhythmic idling? > > Please help! Have had idle adjusted twice (with no effect) and I have no > idea what the problem is. Would like to get some list opinions to take with > me when I go back to my Indy tomorrow. The engine lope you describe is almost always the result of the rack damper not doing its job properly. It may be that it's an original (silver) rack damper or it may be that a revised (gold) rack damper screw is not properly adjusted. The OM61x engine NO machinery to raise the idle in response to changing load (it's supposed to be held at the the set rpm under all conditions, but isn't - especially in very cold or very hot situations). Older versions had a dash knob that could be twisted to raise idle when required, but that was eliminated and the end of the '70s. On worn engines, it's sometimes necessary to raise the idle to the upper end of the allowable idle range (700-800 rpm) or even a little higher to prevent stalling under some conditions. It's POSSIBLE that the injection pump is simply worn out or WAY out of calibration. Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi _______________________________________ For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net Christopher McCann, Squier Park, Kansas City, Missouri -2005 Blue Point Siamese, "Rose" -1987 300TD, 150K, "Rotkäppchen" -1985 300SD, 209K, "Wulf" -1976 240D, ?K, "AKP-Wagen" (Alternativen Kraftstoffs Prüfenlastwagen) -1972 Jacobsen 21" Turbo Vent -1971 Case 222 Hydrive, 12HP Kohler, 38" deck, Snowcaster, "One Banger" --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Nov 17 16:33:45 2005 Received: from web31914.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.207.94]) by server1.arterytc1.net with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1Ecmhl-0003Eo-Pq for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 17 Nov 2005 16:33:45 +0000 Received: (qmail 93832 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Nov 2005 16:33:41 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=pbVOXiklP29OILSLLaVLIQrP7uQCmC4X+0nc9THUlm6p4o5aH2+2eKbTXBFqBoQWiW/STcpzx5eKnzxtz5OFveHre2f/EhR1HeV1PGEXu2pBhX5SgbSDDoMwt6eW3YBp0TMHQqfQSx2rgcY1Gvuisyv6kYSy+n/cTjTThB7pF+w= ; Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Received: from [163.192.21.45] by web31914.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 17 Nov 2005 08:33:41 PST Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 08:33:41 -0800 (PST) From: Fred Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cruise Control Question X-BeenThere: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes mailing list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> List-Id: Mercedes mailing list <mercedes_striplin.net.striplin.net> List-Unsubscribe: <http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net>, <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> List-Archive: <http://striplin.net/pipermail/mercedes_striplin.net> List-Post: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> List-Help: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> List-Subscribe: <http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net>, <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 16:33:46 -0000 Issue solved!!! First time I've heard on this or any MB list, it was the actuator!! Haven't been able to take it apart but am guessing that a solenoid or something along those lines is going bad. Replaced the amplifier with a known good amplifier and had the same issue. Replaced the actuator and the cruise control will now hold the desired speed. --- Fred Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On my 83 300SD the cruise control will not hold the > desired speed. I can use the accelerate function to > get the vehicle up to speed. I can also keep my > foot > on the accelerator and feel the cruise control > trying > to hold the vehicle at speed until it eventually > gives > up. > > Yesterday I cleaned and lubed the cruise control > linkages with ATF. Also cleaned the #12 fuse block. > > Car had same issues this morning. > > Any ideas? > > Thanks, > Fred Johnson > 1977 240D > 1983 300SD > Chicago > > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in > one click. > http://farechase.yahoo.com > __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com
