Good points Dan. Thank you. After reading my own post, I realized I failed to list the "fuel burn rate at full load" for each generator I use. For emergency planning this is likely as important a consideration as doing your "Watts used survey" to select proper sizing.
Larger output generators by nature use more fuel per hr run, so you have to out think that issue to plan ahead, as well as out think [within reason] how long the chosen emergency will last. A generator with no fuel is an oops.... also, the same can be said about running issues with no spares, but then it's possible to go into hoarder territory quickly.... One issue Dan raised, and I'll leave that one for him to expand, is the one of connection to your electrical system. A good transfer switch will cost you almost as much as the generator, however without it, you could be pumping electrical out across the "now broken power lines" and cause responders to be electrocuted. Ooooooops... really not good. Cold food storage is a critical survival issue for most. However, we are accustomed to plugging in our refrigerator and forgetting about it.. it runs, cycles off,, runs again, etc etc... with a backup power source, I suggest you would be better served to become the power nazi of automatic devices and manually control the run times. In my experience, 1 hr run [approx] for a "loaded with food" fridge will put the temps in the lower than safe range for approx 4 hrs. So, run generator for 1 hr.. every 4 hrs = food saved and useable [open it only to get food out, and CLOSE THE DOOR]. Harbor Freight sells a nice cheap laser thermometer that instantly reads temps. Get one as part of your "emergency kit" to keep track of freezer temps and food temps as a guide for when to next do a generator run. This will stretch your fuel usage.. a lot. Another trick is to use a plug in power strip with a switch between your fridge plug and wall plug. This gives you unit control over individual power use items without a lot of expense and when emergency comes you plug them in and bring out your power nazi to play. I've inserted the fuel burn rates for each of the generators I use in the Original post below, fwi. Grant... On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 4:46 AM, Dan Penoff <lwb...@yahoo.com> wrote: > Grant makes some good points which I will address this evening when I get > home. Not enough time at work to comment. > > Dan > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 30, 2011, at 12:01 AM, G Mann <g2ma...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Some items to consider in generator selection for use in a real disaster. > > > > 1. If it's an earthquake disaster, Gas lines will be broken, or as a > > precaution all main supply valves will be shut off until safety can be > > ensured via inspection for the whole area. During that time, your NG > > generator will be without fuel, you will be without electricity. > > > > 2. If it's a hurricane, with damage on even small scale, homes will be > blown > > away ripping out the gas line connection which will once again require > > shutting down the main supply to the gas grid system for the entire area. > > Result, you are out of gas and electricity with no fuel source for the > > "backup generator" > > > > 3. Nuke attack.... Let's don't go there. However, presuming you survive, > > will the gas mains? > > > > Size selection is a matter of calculation of electrical load for > "necessary" > > function. Easy enough to do with a bit of thought and work. > > > > Fuel choice: Gasoline doesn't store well, goes stale with time, and > > presents a real fire hazard for storage. Diesel has fewer flash fire > > issues, lasts much longer with simple biocide treatment to keep alge > growth > > in control. It is hydroscopic so should be sealed against water > intrusion. > > > > Cost: Gas generators large enough to run a house systems can be in the > "less > > than a 1000 bucks range. Diesel gensets cost more [$1500 to $10K about]. > > lasts longer in useful hour life span, aren't available in smaller sizes > > [3500 Watt is about the low end size]. > > Propane fueled generators use more fuel than either gas or diesel simply > > because propane [or natural gas] has less BTU per comparable volume of > fuel. > > Propane stores pretty well, as in independent source from the vulnerable > NG > > grid , as a third option. However, you may have local permit issues with > a > > large propane tank in your yard. > > > > My personal experience: I live on a remote 36,000 acre ranch [that's 35 > sq. > > miles] in western Arizona. The nearest power pole is 42 miles away, so > for > > me, "normal" is your "emergency". I have all the electrical items > [likely] > > that you have and the order of electrical generation works for me like > this. > > 1. Solar system , 4.5 KW system.. Primary. normal house things, computer, > > lights, refrig. > > 2. Diesel Generator, 7.5 KW system... Secondary.... 120/240, 3 phase > > available > Fuel burn at full load: 0.8 gallons per hr. > 3. Diesel Generator. 3.5 KW system... Secondary backup. 120/240.. Fuel burn at full load: 0.6 GPH > . > > 4. Gas Generator, 3.5 KW system.... Reserve secondary backup, mobile > rig > > 120/240 with welders on trailer, also wired to run well pumps. > Fuel burn at full load: 0.8 GPH > 5. Gas Generator, 1.2 KW system.... House system backup reserve, > [dedicated > > to refrig/deep freeze and lights. [phased usage required since it's to > small > > to handle start loads on all the items at one time. > Fuel burn at full load: 0.3 GPH > 6. Numerous 12 volt solar panels dedicated to small battery banks to run > > things like the electric entry gate, security cameras, electrified > fences, > > communication relays, etc. > > > > As you may guess, I'm a great fan of not depending on public services > [since > > there are none where I am].... respectfully suggest that in a real > emergency > > you quickly find yourself in the same situation. > > > > Grant... > > > > On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 8:07 PM, OK Don <okd...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Thanks for putting the "generator hat" on! > >> I ran a crude spreadsheet calculation against the propane generators on > >> Amazon, and found this one - almost too good to be true -- > >> > >> > http://www.amazon.com/Sportsman-GEN7000LP-7000-Watt-Portable-Generator/dp/B004BKI0ZM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314673188&sr=8-1 > >> > >> It produces 8.86 watts/$, vs. a Generac 7kW at 3.89 watts/$. > >> > >> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 7:52 PM, LWB250 <lwb...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> > >>> <Generator hat on> > >>> > >>> The whole thing when it comes to stationary standby generators is > >>> determining what your critical loads are. Until you do that, you're > just > >>> flailing around. > >>> > >>> Make a list of "must have" loads and write down their wattages. > >>> > >>> The worst case ones will be small, fractional horsepower motors, like > >> sump > >>> pumps and furnace blowers. Single phase motors are horribly > inefficient > >>> when it comes to starting current, so you've got to have enough reserve > >> to > >>> handle their inrush current. > >>> > >>> From there look at things like fridge, freezer, basic lighting, garage > >> door > >>> opener, etc. > >>> > >>> Generac and other manufacturers have some good sizing programs on the > Web > >>> that allow you to do the calculations. Just keep in mind that these > are > >>> general values and not 100% accurate. It's a guide to give you an idea > >> of > >>> what you need capacity-wise. > >>> > >>> Once you know what you need kW-wise you can start looking. > >>> > >>> Stationary sets run off propane vapor or natural gas. Be careful when > >>> shopping, as propane has a much higher BTU content than natural gas, so > >>> machines are often rated on propane with deration percentages if it's > on > >>> natural gas. Usually you'll see a 10%-15% deration on natural gas. > >>> > >>> Install often equals the cost of the unit, so be prepared. If you can > do > >>> any of it yourself this is the place where you can save some serious > >> bucks. > >>> You will need a licensed electrician to do your transfer switch, unless > >>> you're doing downstream of your main breaker. This is typical, as a > >> branch > >>> circuit will be run to a transfer switch that feeds a small > distribution > >>> panel where your critical loads have been broken out from the main > panel. > >>> > >>> While it's more expensive, it's foolish (in my opinion) to go with a > >>> stationary generator and not have an automatic transfer switch (ATS). > >> Think > >>> about if you are away, and the power goes out. If it's an extended > >> outage, > >>> you risk food loss, possible damage to your home depending on the > climate > >>> and season, etc. Sure, it's a peace of mind thing, but the additional > >> cost > >>> is minimal in the grand scheme of things. > >>> > >>> Generac has really dialed in the consumer home standby market, and done > a > >>> good job with it. You'll find their products marketed at all the big > box > >>> home improvement stores under the "Guardian" brand, among others. They > >> have > >>> done a very good job of balancing the price point vs. quality and > >> longevity. > >>> You can go more expensive, such as a Kohler, but even though I have > some > >>> bias as a former employee of both, the Kohler is a premium product that > >>> effectively does the exact same thing the Generac does. > >>> > >>> Maintenance is the key to longevity on these, just as it is on your MB, > >> and > >>> it doesn't take any special tools or knowledge. Change oil and filters > >>> annually and keep it clean and you're pretty much done with it. > >>> > >>> If anyone has specific questions they are welcome to send me a PM. > >>> > >>> Dan > >>> > >>> </Generator hat off> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> OK Don > >> 2001 ML320 > >> 1992 300D 2.5T > >> 1990 300D 2.5T > >> 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager > >> _______________________________________ > >> http://www.okiebenz.com > >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > >> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > >> > > _______________________________________ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > _______________________________________ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > _______________________________________ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
