[Mifnet 🛰 73212] Re: Huh?

[Amarnath S Murthy via Mifnet]

Hello Bob D and Mark B, Airlines use the mechanism precisely because they are temporarily unable to effectively communicate to their entire network. No, they are not abdicating their operational control obligations.  Agree with Mark that this is a resourceful way to achieve the desired result, while efforts are underway to mitigate the issue that caused them to halt their operations. All the best, Amar ✈️ Sent from a mobile device, please excuse typos ✈️ On Jul 21, 2025, at 19:32, Mark HANSEN via Mifnet <mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> wrote:  We interviewed a major carrier about their IROP procedures and this topic came up. According to my notes, "carrier-initiated traffic management initiatives" are used because FAA can take action more quickly and at a broader scope than the individual airlines can even for their own flights, and can also delay aircraft more readily once they have left the gate. Although the standard TMI involves flights of multiple airlines, the capability to implement a standard TMI can readily be used for a carrier initiated one. I don't see this as "wrong on so many levels" but rather as clever and resourceful. On Mon, Jul 21, 2025 at 4:32 PM ATHGroup--- via Mifnet <mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> wrote: Mark,   So, what you are saying is that ATC has a better command and control process for the movement of the airline’s $100s of Billions of aircraft assets than the airlines themselves.   This is so wrong on so many levels.   Michael xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx R. Michael Baiada cell - (303) 521-6047 rmbai...@greenlandings.net   From: Mark HANSEN via Mifnet <mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> Sent: Monday, July 21, 2025 15:33 To: mifnet@lists.mifnet.com Cc: Mark HANSEN <mhan...@ce.berkeley.edu> Subject: [Mifnet 🛰 73206] Re: Huh?   This is actually an interesting corner of air traffic management. Airlines will sometimes ask FAA to implement ground stops or other ATM initiatives that the carriers could theoretically carry out themselves, because FAA has processes and systems in place to do this more easily.   On Mon, Jul 21, 2025 at 10:50 AM Mike Borfitz via Mifnet <mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> wrote: Good question. Maybe "Advised" rather than "sought". No way is it necessary to get FAA approval. Air Traffic might appreciate it for their own planning.    Borfitz    Mike Borfitz, DER   Cell         206-714-8797 e-Mail:     m...@borfitz.com Kilroy Aviation LLC Website: WWW.FAAODA.COM     Kilroy is available for aviation regulatory and safety issues - Type & Production Certification, Continued Operational Safety - International validation & safety matters - Program & system management - FAA STC ODA   On Mon, Jul 21, 2025, 8:42 AM Tom Ronell via Mifnet <mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> wrote: Alaska had to apply to FAA to not fly? Per below: "According to an FAA advisory, the airline sought approval to ground over 200 planes under its brand. It later expanded the stoppage to include planes from its Horizon Air unit. Alaska Airlines said the decision stemmed from a computer network outage. While the ground stop was lifted about three hours later, around 11pm Pacific, Alaska said that “residual impacts” to its operations would be felt, adding, “It will take some time to get our overall operations back to normal.” As NBC News noted, the disruption comes almost exactly a year -- Professor Mark Hansen Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering, UC Berkeley Co-Director, National Center of Excellence for Aviation Operations Research 114 McLaughlin Hall Berkeley CA 94720 Phone: 510-642-2880 Cell: 510-375-1745 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Revised: 20250507 You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. 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See instructions at:   https://lists.mifnet.com/ * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at:   https://lists.mifnet.com/ * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email:   mifnet-requ...@lists.mifnet.com?subject=help * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at:   https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at:   https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at:   https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/mifnet@lists.mifnet.com/ -- Professor Mark Hansen Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering, UC Berkeley Co-Director, National Center of Excellence for Aviation Operations Research 114 McLaughlin Hall Berkeley CA 94720 Phone: 510-642-2880 Cell: 510-375-1745 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Revised: 20250507 You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: https://wardell.us/url/mifbit All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a privilege--not a right. 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the author. 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other Mifnet members. * The Mifnet WEB SITE is:  https://www.mifnet.com/ * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit:  https://lists.mifnet.com/  OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: mifnet-requ...@lists.mifnet.com?subject=leave * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to:  mifnet@lists.mifnet.com * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at:  mifnet-ow...@lists.mifnet.com * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all list traffic into 1-3  messages daily. 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