Theo de Raadt wrote:
>> Theo de Raadt wrote:
>>
>>> Richard seperated us out. Jack, don't go telling me that we may not
>>> rail against Richard being a prick.
>>>
>>>
>> Well, no, you may. The problem is when two people sling poop on each other,
>> sooner or later it ends, and then all you've got is two guys standing
>> there looking
>> sheepish, all covered with poop.
>>
>
> How is this my fault?
>
Because you love OpenBSD soo much that you see threats and insults
even when they are not there.
> Richard slagged our efforts. In the public space.
>
Go back and listen the the actual BSDTalk interview that started
this mess.
OpenBSD never comes up by name. All the BSD's are discused
generically, There is one sentence about ports. Not the OpenBSD
ports systems, but ports generically across all BSD's. Even so the
remarks are qualifed.
The most negative statement Richard made is "I can not recommend
them". By standards he has applied consistently to the other BSD's, and
Linux Distro's,
that is true.
The whole trying to parse the meaning of the word "include" and
exactly how does ports work is just a red herring. Yes, Richard could
have more chosen a more precise word for a single sentence in a 30minute
interview with thousands of words during which the whole topic of BSD's
gets at base a minute or two, and OpenBSD is never mentioned. He also
could have become more educated about exactly how ports works, except
that he did not have to. There is software that is non-free that can be
installed through ports. I do not beleive you have ever argues that was
not true.
Richard's exploring ports further would not have changed his
inability to recommend OpenBSD. But your looking into the published
criteria that he uses to assess whether he can recommend and OS would
have made it clear that no argument about how ports works would have
altered his inability to recommend OpenBSD without violating his own
standards.
Of course Richard has ulterior motives - I suspect he would really
like to see one or all of the BSD's clear out all the non-free software
etc. OpenBSD is by far the closest to being able to receive his
recommendation. I am sure he would love to add a link to OpenBSD on the
GNU/FSF web sites. I suspect he would like to use OpenBSD as a club to
bring other Linux Distro's into line. None of thaat causes you or
OpenBSD any harm.
Personally, I think both you and most of the OpenBSD community
actually want his recommendation, but you view making any change as a
result of an outside influence - and particularly Richard, the FSF and
GNU as an unacceptable sign of weakness.
So fine, let this thread die, sit on your thumbs for a month,
re-read your own policies and goals. think about whether having non-free
software even linked to in ports is really consistent with them, decide
to remove non-free software - because it is a good idea and the right
thing to do, because it is inconsistent with atleast the implicit if not
explicit principles of OpenBSD. There are no binary blobs in the kernel,
you claim there is no non-free software in base or packages. If you feel
strongly enough to keep it out of those, why not ports? If it makes you
feel better sacrifice a couple more GNU tools, yank a few more GPL
packages. Whatever it takes to feel self righteous. Do it because it is
the right thing, because you really want to. Then sit back on your
thumbs and ignore Richard and the FSF/GNU some more, wait for Richard to
claim he can not endorse any BSD again, and then beat him to death.
You want to beat him up over his hypocracy - actually catch him in a
real act of hypocracy first.
> Richard is a hyprcrite, since he does exactly the same thing.
>
All of us are hypocrits. I aspire to diminish my own hypocracy to
Richard's leevel.
> Richard walked onto this mailin list, telling lies.
>
Each of us should judge Richard according to his own standards,
words and acts.
Nothing Richard says or does can diminish you. What effects your
stature or that of OpenBSD is your standards, words, and acts.
Take a couple of valium and reread Richard's original post. You have
to want to be insulted to perceive insult.
He asserted that under appropriate circumstances he is willing to
RECOMMEND OpenBSD privately.
If that is what you need to make you happy snip everything but the
last paragraph and post the email to the openbsd website.
