I purchased my '92 GTI 16V with 15,900 miles at a VW dealership in 1994 for $13,400. I think the MSRP new was close to $18K. A stock '91-'92 GTI 16V would probably be lucky to break 20 minutes at the 'Ring. The cars that approach the magical seven minute mark all have well in excess of 600hp, carbon ceramic brakes, active aero dynamics, etc., and cost over $100K. The exception is the Corvette Z06, with an MSRP of a little over $70K. Once you start approaching the seven minute mark with a stock production car, the MSRP's can easily exceed seven figures. McLaren P1, Pagani, Ferrari LaFerrari, Koenigsegg, Porsche 918, blah blah blah. The current record for "production" cars is 6:48 for a Radical SR8LM. Not your Grand Mother's grocery getter.
~Holland I ran across the restoration thread from VWVortex which I previously mentioned. It is an 87 8V GTI from Europe. The thread is rather long but he has done the restoration to a very high level of quality with a huge number of hours dedicated to it. Somehow he has more than one of these projects going on at the same time… http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4594833-VW-Golf-GTI-1987-restoration-project About today’s driver’s cars – I am reminded about how much of a good deal these cars were. A 1992 GTI 16V invoiced at ~$12,500 circa 1991 which in today’s dollars is ~$22,000. You can’t even get a base model Golf these days for that price, let alone the top of the line R. We also all know that today’s cars are safer than ever. That safety comes at the cost of weight which has to be overcome with more power from the engine. For a while displacement was how this was achieved but with emmissions standards getting more stringent turbocharging has been the only way to keep up for most companies. All these things combine to reduce the raw feel of today’s cars as compared to 80s cars. Sadly, they can never build cars like they used to in the 80s but I think we all have to admit that today’s cars are better than ever. I wonder what a stock MK2 16V would do on the Nürburgring and how close it would come to today’s sub-7-minute record times. -Larry 91 GTI 16V *From:* mk2-16v@googlegroups.com [mailto:mk2-16v@googlegroups.com] *Sent:* Friday, December 11, 2015 5:59 PM *To:* mk2-16v@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [mk2-16v] RE: Projects and Motivation I just read the tag lines about the Vortex project GTi - it sounds way too much like cars I've owned for me to be comfortable - lines like "The big bumpers...held on my sheet metal screws to the small bumper rebar..." My original 8v car that was the recipient of a 16v swap had Euro bumpers that were held on by a wing and a prayer - I hadn't learned about JB Weld yet SO at least they were bolted on. It wasn't until many years later when I had a Mk1 MR2 that I discovered how to use Dura-Glass to "mold" fiberglass bumpers onto the bodywork instead of actually bolting the covers to the car. I agree - no one collects old cars for reasons other than aesthetics. As much as I'm nostalgic about my parents' 69 Beetle, I can't say that I'm running out to buy one b/c I've driven lawn tractors and they're fine, just not daily transportation. The Mk1 and Mk2 VWs are certainly unique in their timeframe. BMWs in that timeframe were unique as well but their disparity between what was and what is currently in production is tremendous. VW's current production is certainly better than in the mid-80s but VW has, to some small degree, stuck with their roots and produced a car that (when compared to other cars in its price range) is a Driver's Car. That said, nothing I've driven in the past 5 years could be remotely considered a Driver's Car by an iron-butt such as myself. All new cars are squishy and soft which is fine for the "motoring public". Gimme a car that actually has road feel and the like - the closest I've seen is the BRZ but I'm not at liberty to part with thirty-thousand of my hard-earned dollars for that little gem. I'd rather spend those dollars in smaller chunks on older, more visceral but less capable cars that are more rewarding to drive. On Friday, December 11, 2015 5:36 PM, Larry Velez <la...@sinu.com> wrote: Les, Thanks for keeping up the good fight! I hope this list helps people a little with motivation – I know we all need a little of that. Do let VW Heritage know that there is a market here for Mk2 parts and that many of us would be buying them if they were available… Mathew is right there are better cars today but people don’t collect 1920s Fords because they are good cars – they collect and restore them because they are awesome to them. We have the benefit that we can actually drive our collector cars at 100 MPH without it falling apart. I think modern classics are the best of both worlds and you can enjoy them much more than a 53 Porsche that does not have enough power to get up a hill.. I think we are just getting into the hype for our cars growing. The hype for BMWs of the same era has already exploded and I think VWs of the era will ride some of that wave. This will encourage aftermarket companies to start producing restoration parts so it is easier for us to restore and maintain these cars. Here is some more inspiration in case you had not already seen this: http://www.vwvortex.com/features/project-cars/1985-volkswagen-gti-restoration/ There is another impressive thread for a white Mk2 on vortex where the guy has done a true nut and bolt restoration with tons of new parts but I can’t find that thread right now. -Larry 91 GTI 16V *From:* mk2-16v@googlegroups.com [mailto:mk2-16v@googlegroups.com <mk2-16v@googlegroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Les Noriel *Sent:* Tuesday, December 8, 2015 1:05 PM *To:* mk2-16v@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [mk2-16v] Interesting find in Jacksonville, FL Matthew makes a good point. Cars have really evolved in the past two decades. Horsepower, traction, and safety have all made significant advancements over the past few years. In addition, Our culture has really grown accustomed to creature comforts. I've not seen a car with manual window cranks in years. Power windows and locks with remote key access are standard in virtually every vehicle sold today. My two VW projects are crude by today's standards. Personally, I've grown fond of the comforts of my Audi A4 which makes the interior of the old MKIIs primitive by comparison. And it's ten years old! Like many of us, my car projects have slowly progressed over a period of decades. My wife has allowed me to use the garage for my projects rather than parking cars. But I do need to finish them at some point. Parts are getting more difficult to find. There's nothing I like more than seeing a MKII VW restored and driving on the road. Sometimes I just need the time and motivation to keep progressing. I recently peeked into my Golf 16V and noticed that the new fabric on the headliner which I installed a few years back has fallen. *Sigh*! I was so proud of that achievement but now seems like I'll have to go back to square one and do it again. Recently, VW Heritage has asked me to critique some of their products for Project MKII 16V and write it up in my project blog. So I'm looking through their catalog now. It gives me something to rekindle the interest. -Les On Dec 8, 2015, at 8:48 AM, 'Matthew Yip' via MK2-16v wrote: Ah yes, the world of abandoned projects. My street car was a 97 Passat TDI that is now for sale b/c of front-end damage. I can't bring myself to trash the car even with 424K miles on the odo BUT it's valueless to anyone other than a fanatic. Then again, I've met a Mk2 fanatic whose mission it seems is to "save and restore all Mk2 VW products". As much as I like the cars, there are newer and better cars in the world...(blasphemy, yes). On Tuesday, December 8, 2015 11:27 AM, Holland Phillips < hollandphill...@gmail.com> wrote: I had a '76 Mk1 that I was going to restore, probably into some sort of race/street vehicle. It had a 1.6 8v motor with a terminal rod knock. Would have been cool to put a fully modded 2.0 TSI motor in it, with a 6 speed, Quaife (sp?) etc. It had a straight body with some surface rust, but that's about it. It sat in my driveway almost 20 years, then finally got a free ride to the "Auto Recycler". ~Holland Yes - The Mk2 Slorocco, especially the 16v was essentially a very overweight Rabbit. I had one and it was tonnes of fun - not as visceral as the Mk1 by any stretch of the imagination but much more connected than anything VW has produced since that time frame. On Tuesday, December 8, 2015 10:53 AM, Holland Phillips < hollandphill...@gmail.com> wrote: Matt, I think you meant Mk 2 Scirocco, right? '87 was Definitely Mk2... ~Holland On Dec 8, 2015 07:47, "'Matthew Yip' via MK2-16v" <mk2-16v@googlegroups.com> wrote: I have a hard time with "restored" - these cars just don't seem that old to me BUT they're almost 30 years old at this point!!! (Damn, I'm OLD too). I should probably keep this to myself BUT as a non-sunroof car, this restoration car would make a great racecar candidate (that is if the Mk1 Slorocco weren't such an overweight pig). Matthew On Tuesday, December 8, 2015 10:36 AM, Jack Simon <crabs...@gmail.com> wrote: http://bringatrailer.com/2015/12/07/nicely-restored-1987-volkswagen-scirocco-16v/ http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/cto/5329045176.html -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MK2-16v" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mk2-16v+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to mk2-16v@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/mk2-16v. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mk2-16v/6373FBF4-C129-4AC6-B5FB-9A278540782C%40gmail.com . 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