Please decide whether you want to have the discussion at the mod_perl list
or its sister advocacy list. I've added the advocacy list to CC, so at
least the person who will search the advocacy archive in the future will
find all the info about this important issue. Therefore I quote it in all
completeness here.
TomC, please don't tell me that I don't know how to quote. Thank you!
> Hello fellow mod_perlians,
>
> I know I had promised to send this in by the end of December / early
> January, I am really late and sorry. I was caught in France by the french
> army for being an alleged deserteur, and they were *very* insistent on
> having me stay there. Anyway I'm out now :)
>
> Some time ago Matt Arnold and I started work with the aim of redesigning
> the perl.apache.org website. A draft of the proposed layout is sitting at
> http://modperl.knowscape.org/ . But adding graphic layout not being the
> primary goal we also wanted to change the site architecture so that things
> would be more easily found. One of the goals was also to make an "about"
> section targetted at people that are not developers but need be convinced
> that mod_perl is the way to go. I beleive that could help some of us in
> their daily jobs.
>
> I haven't had as much time as I wanted to work on this, but here is the
> latest version of the draft. It is by no means final, and any input is
> obviously very very welcome. And of course, we didn't write "In my/our
> humble opinion" before every element seeing that it might make the read a
> bit boring, but consider that it is there in thought.
>
> Also, I know that some work has been done on the site, but I haven't yet
> finished readin my mod_perl list mailbox (should be finished by tonight). I
> am in no way excluding things that have been said while I wasn't reading, I
> just haven't seen them yet :)
>
> The following document is also available at:
> http://modperl.knowscape.org/outline20000209.txt
>
>
>
>
> #----------------------------------------------------------------------#
> # I. Site Structure
> #----------------------------------------------------------------------#
>
>
>
> Home Page
> =========
>
> - brief introduction to mod_perl "What is mod_perl?", "More than CGI",
> links to more detailed introductory content.
> - news box (top n headlines and teasers)
> - short text explaining where to find what is in the site
> - quick "get started fast" link to Stas' guide section on that subject
> - small, concentrated Netcraft box heralding usage and growth
> . Apache Servers: x million / 63%
> . Modperl Powered: x hundred thousand / 5%
> . Modperl presence keeps growing at an incredible pace,
> . more -> link to /about/netcraft/
>
>
>
> News
> ====
>
> /news/?id=x or /news/x.html
> - script/handler shows full news article for article number x or static
> page pregenerated
>
> /news/search.html
> - quick way to search past news items
>
>
>
> Download
> ========
>
> /download/
> - link to the mod_perl bundle
> - list of the latest CHANGES
> - requirements (Apache 1.3.xx, etc...)
> - links to install help documentation, including mod_perl help, the
> guide and the entire docset.
>
> /download/modules/
> - about CPAN
> - info on Apache::* modules
> (from http://perl.apache.org/src/apache-modlist.html or the new
> version if it is a workable solution cf II. Tools)
> - link to /docs/modules/ documentation (it would be nice to
> centralise the docs for all the modules)
>
>
> About
> =====
> (i.e. marketing info, introduction to features (the detailed developer
> info is kept in the doc section))
>
> /about/
> - links to the various pages in this section with descriptions of
> their content
>
> /about/usage/
> - Netcraft usage info found at http://perl.apache.org/netcraft/
> - extracts from the following:
> . customer list/testimonials, use a subset of info from
> http://perl.apache.org/tidbits.html,
> http://perl.apache.org/stories/,
> http://perl.apache.org/sites.html
> . info on high-profile sites gathered by Rex Staples
>
> /about/usage/customers/
> - complete list of customers (to the best of our knowledge anyway)
>
> /about/usage/testimonials/
> - complete list of customer testimonials and success stories
>
> /about/press/
> - mod_perl in the news (i.e. press saying how cool mod_perl is)
> - use info from http://perl.apache.org/tidbits.html, search around
> for more (eg the Beanie Award)
>
> /about/performance/
> - boast about speed, intro to the content that lives at
> http://www.chamas.com/hello_world.html or host the content
> directly (split among multiple pages ? It's a very long document),
> borrow ideas from the mySQL crash_me comparison database
>
> - should we use a crashme script too ? Does it make sense ?
>
> /about/advocacy/
> - factoids to help persuade PHB's for mod_perl
> - perl versus everything else
> http://perl.apache.org/perl_myth.html,
> http://language.perl.com/versus/index.html
> Note: I find it looks quite unhealthy to be on the defensive. This
> section shouldn't be put forth too much, and we should add a
> disclaimer stating that these are merely arguments provided to
> help people that have a hard time convincing eg stubborn
> management
>
> /about/features/
> - basic intro to mod_perl features
> - link to documentation for detailed information on each feature
> described
> - CGI emulation using Apache::Registry and Apache::PerlRun, touch on
> Apache::Request?
> - describe briefly all the phases of the Apache request/response
> lifecycle explain how mod_perl can intervene in all these stages
> - brief overview of some of the systems running under mod_perl that
> can be leveraged into a lot of power
>
> /about/logos/
> - content comes from http://perl.apache.org/logos/
> - update with some new logos
>
> /about/credits/
> - list of mod_perl project contributors. The list is quite long and
> a bit out of date. Listing people by category, date, release ?
>
> /about/solutions/
> - an as-complete-as-possible list of perl-embedding-templating-etc
> tools that use mod_perl (even if they don't require it), with a
> listing of their pros and cons. mod_perl's wealth sometimes works
> in it's disfavour as it is really hard for newcomers to know which
> one of these solutions they should go with. Obviously this is
> *not* to be a "my system is better than yours" game, all of these
> are useful in the right context. Some may have a more general set
> of features, but would definitely be overkill for certain tasks.
> It might be good if authors would submit their own list of pros
> and cons.
> - refocused info from http://perl.apache.org/products.html?
>
> Support
> =======
>
> /support/
> - about the mailing list, how to subscribe/unsubscribe
> - list of list of various archive sources from
> http://perl.apache.org/
> - list of businesses doing commercial support (e.g. Matt Sergeant)
>
>
>
> Documentation
> =============
>
> /docs/
> - links to and overview of the various on-site documentation in this
> section
> - links to popular off-site documentation (ASP, Embperl, Mason...)
> - link to http://www.refcards.com/
> - link to perlmonth articles
>
> /docs/guide/
> - Stas' guide from http://perl.apache.org/guide/
> Note: there's a lot of great documentation out there. I don't know
> if we should do a separate section for the guide or not, or
> for all. The size of the guide seems to require it.
> Note: should the guide match layout of the rest of the site ? Doing
> it shouldn't be a problem and it might be better to have a
> consistent layout but I'm totally unsure of this, and of
> course it is up to Stas to make the final decision on this
> point. The HTML of the guide being generated, I guess we can
> have as many layouts as we want/need.
>
> /docs/books/
> - intro to the Eagle book, link to http://www.modperl.com/
> - mention Stas' guide + Eric -> book
> - subset of glowing reviews lifted from amazon.com, TPJ, or
> elsewhere?
> - a few Perl-only books to complement the list of mod_perl books
> - links to amazon.com, oreilly.com, etc...
>
> /docs/tutorials/
> - list of the best tutorials found on other sites
> - use links from http://perl.apache.org/tidbits.html,
> http://www.perlmonth.com/
>
> /docs/faqs/
> - http://perl.apache.org/faq/
> - http://perl.apache.org/faqs.html
> - http://perl.apache.org/dist/cgi_to_mod_perl.html
> - http://perl.apache.org/dist/mod_perl_traps.html
> - http://perl.apache.org/src/mod_perl.html
> - http://perl.apache.org/tuning/
> - ?
> Note: see above for documents in this list that may not be best put
> under faqs but might have a section of their own.
>
> /docs/modules/
> ? htmlified version of all or most of the module pods (that could
> easily be included in both the site's template for online browsing
> and in a simpler, imageless template for download)
>
> Search
> ======
>
> /search/
> - allowing to search a subset of the site (e.g. just docs) would be nice
>
> Links
> =====
>
> /links/
> - mod_perl-specific places to visit e.g. modperl.sourcegarden.org,
> maybe perl and apache places too to complement the list
>
>
>
>
>
> #----------------------------------------------------------------------#
> # II. Tools
> #----------------------------------------------------------------------#
>
>
> Note: I am not up to date re the facilities available from
> perl.apache.org (not to mention it's mirrors), sourcegarden.org
> (especially since it has changed) or perlmonth.com (if it goes
> beyond the great idea of buying the domain name). I can supplement
> any resource deficiencies using my own server.
>
>
>
> It may be a workable solution given the restrictions on perl.apache.org
> to generate whatever can be pregenerated on another server and have that
> server CVS the output up to perl.apache.org automatically.
>
> For some of these entries, we need to know how they will be posted to
> the site (can ISPs submit themselves, who is in charge of adding news,
> etc...). Making posting open but moderated (possibly by several of us)
> seems like a workable options to me.
>
>
>
> News Program
> ============
>
> News and News admin programs needed.
>
> Chances are it is useless to generate the news dynamically especially
> as they are unlikely to change too often. The news admin could generate
> both the headlines snippet included on the front page and the pages
> corresponding to archived/complete news items in the /news section. All
> this can be static and stored on disk. I know it is mod_perl we are
> advertising, but to use it efficiently I believe that what doesn't
> *need* to be dynamic shouldn't be. The remaining problem will be how to
> search the news.
>
>
> Wrapper/converter for text and pod files
> ========================================
>
> Much of the user-contributed material comes in text or pod. To provide a
> look and feel consistent with the rest of the site, we will need to
> develop a script to "wrap" into a template for the site. The pod2html
> script is insufficient for this task but we can probably leverage
> earlier work by Stas (for the Guide) on such scripts as well as
> Pod::Parser.
>
>
>
> Job Postings
> ============
>
> Same as for the news. (though perlmonth is doing this now, we could just
> link to that).
>
>
>
> ISP List
> ========
>
> Same as for the news.
>
>
>
> Testimonials and stories, etc...
> ================================
>
> Same as for the news
>
>
>
> Module Database
> ===============
>
> A list of the names + download link + description/author/last_modified/
> CPAN_status + link to the homepage for the module + synopsis.
>
> Part of this can be handled automatically by a cron script that would
> check CPAN on a regular basis (or the already existing database of
> search.cpan.org) and update the list using more or less the same method
> as for the news.
>
> This would hopefully help keep the modlist constantly up-to-date while
> reducing the maintenance to be done on it. Meanwhile, the maintenance
> can still be done by hand.
>
>
>
>
>
> #----------------------------------------------------------------------#
> # III. Layout
> #----------------------------------------------------------------------#
>
>
> Note: a simple bunch of RewriteRules redirecting the present pages to
> their new locations would be a nice thing to do, and an easy one
> too.
>
>
> There was quite a lot of feedback on the template that was put up at
> http://modperl.knowscape.org/ A number of issues were raised which I
> have jotted down and have plans to address if that layout is chosen.
> I can also transfer any information on the subject to anyone wishing to
> do some graphical work. I saw that someone has done some work updating
> the present page (and it looks good) but I haven't had time yet to catch
> with any mail relating to that subject.
>
>
> Templates
> =========
>
> >graphical
> - simple navigation bar with search box
> - tweak it to remove several problems, including:
> . 800x600 is the current minimal resolution
> . there is too much HTML, reduce it by taking a the useless effects
> out
> . sending PNG instead of GIF to user-agents that support them would
> be nice, but I haven't come up with a reliable way to do this yet
> (content-negotiation is probably insufficient)
> . the current table-based layout is a pain for very long pages
> which are likely to exist in some places on this site. Working
> around this is not impossible, but will require thought
> - having a navbar that evolves (with sublists when in the
> corresponding section) to show where one is would be nice and not
> too hard either)
> - graphical section headers are a potential problem, but they could be
> generated using GD and/or PerlMagic. Otherwise there are plenty of
> ways we can work our way around this
>
> >text
> - this is much easier obviously, however I've often heard people say
> they thought text-navigation was easier with the navbar at the top
> and bottom of the page. I'd like to have opinions on this, but
> please let's avoid religion wars on this subject.
>
>
>
>
>
> .Robin
> Radioactive cats have 18 half-lives.
>
>
_______________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stason.org/stas
Perl,CGI,Apache,Linux,Web,Java,PC http://www.stason.org/stas/TULARC
perl.apache.org modperl.sourcegarden.org perlmonth.com perl.org
single o-> + single o-+ = singlesheaven http://www.singlesheaven.com
