JR,
No need fo rme to be pissed at all. You are entilted to your opinions, no
matter how incorrect or off-base they are (regarding me, anyway).
I'm not going to give my entire life history as a) no one would read it and
b) I hate typing (as evidienced by my many typographical errors), but
suffice it to say I had very limited entertainment choices when I was young,
seeing as how we had 3 channels on the tube. Then, around 1981 we got a
satellite dish. Lo and behold the world of uncut films right in your own
home was a reality, and I watched a steady diet of The Movie Channel and
Cinemax's racy efforts (horror and their soft-core stuff that some find
titillating) behind my parent's backs. By God, I must be an anomoly as I
grew up in a loving home with both (gasp) parents who stood behind me in my
dream of becoming a filmmaker one day.
I can't tell you how many beheadings, guttings, evicerations etc I've seen
over the years, and while I haven't delved into films as much as I'd like,
I'm currently working with many of the horror heros I grew up watching: I
run official websites for Betsy Palmer (a lovely lady and dear friend, whom
many on this list will know from her other non-horror roles) Ari Lehman (the
original Jason from Friday the 13th) and many others, as well as run a
successful apparel company specializing in horror-themed merchandise.
I'm happily married for the past 6 years with a beautiful wife and daughter
of 4, I own my own business and last time I checked have never killed
anyone, beaten anyone with a bat (I do like to fight, but only in the dojo)
and am as about as whitebread normal as you can get (minus the skull tattoos
I supose). Please explain what part of "sadly influenced to a damaging
degree" applies to me, mmkay?
And last but not least, our world is far from civilized, amigo. Beheadings
in the name of Allah, strapping bombs to your child's body for the religion
of peace, cutting the hands off a shoplifter, genocide in Sudan...what part
of this uncivilization and barbarism did horror films play a role in? It
ain't all fluffy clouds and butterflies, anywhere.
Cheers,
Erik
----- Original Message -----
From: "JR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Erik" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 11:59 PM
Subject: Re: [MOPO] HOSTILE TOWARD HOSTEL
Erik,
Sorry, dude, but if your statements below are serious, then from your own
statements you've identified yourself as a product of the problem we're
discussing. Sorry to be so blunt, but at least as far as your cinema
tastes/critical facilities go, it would seem you've been sadly influenced
to
a damaging degree by these films, which is exactly the point. Naturally, I
don't expect you to see it this way (and I fully expect you to be quite
pissed at me for looking at it that way). You talk about choice, but how
much choice about being exposed to this violence pollution did you have
when
you were very young... when your tastes were being formed? How much of it
just seeped into your consciousness through TV commercials for such films,
from being allowed to see these films when you were young, and other
exposure media-glorifications of violence which have become so common?
Do you really not understand the difference between a genuine horror film
and a gratuitous torture fest?
If you "get an emotional stimulus" that you "enjoy receiving" from the
later, am I supposed to believe that's cool? Sorry, man, it's not. Not in
a
civilized world.
-- JR
----- Original Message -----
From: "Erik" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 22:05
Subject: Re: [MOPO] HOSTILE TOWARD HOSTEL
People watch horror films the same reason some people ride roller
coasters,
or skydive, or watch a sappy tearjerker: it gives them an emotional
stimulus
they enjoy receiving. It's not for everyone.
Tastes are different, and "positive contributions" may be one thing to
you
and another to I. I'll take Tobe Hooper's Texas Chainsaw Massacre over
Citizen Kane any day of the week. Re-Animator trounces Gone With the Wind
in
my house. Am I supposed to feel somewhat less of a movie fan because of
my
tastes in cinema? Is the fact that I own Cannibal Holocaust supposed to
make
me a sick, depraved prevert, regardless of how "normal" my life is?
I think not. What floats your boat may not work for me, bunky. Such is
the
beauty of choice.
Cheers,
Erik
----- Original Message -----
From: "JOHN REID Vintage Movie Memorabilia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 9:03 PM
Subject: Re: [MOPO] HOSTILE TOWARD HOSTEL
>I have never been able to understand the fascination with extreme horror
> films or the motivation of those who make them. Perhaps it is just the
> cheap
> thrill or a perverted form of shock value but it is all a mystery to
> me.
I
> believe that, despite what some sociologists might claim, there is a
> direct
> correlation between violence in movies and the many violent and
> horrific
> crimes that seem to occur daily. I guess those who make these films
> will
> make money from them but it is a pity that they cannot direct their
> talents
> into making films that can make a positive contribution.
>
>
> JOHN REID VINTAGE MOVIE MEMORABILIA
> PO Box 92
> Palm Beach
> Qld 4221
> Australia
>
> Website: www.moviemem.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil Edwards Cinema Arts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 11:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [MOPO] HOSTILE TOWARD HOSTEL
>
>
>> Erik is correct of course, most most notably in his last two paras of
>> his post.
>>
>> I probably won't see HOSTEL unless it's as a freebie on DVD down the
>> track.
>>
>> I haven't bothered to see remakes of DAWN OF THE DEAD or TCM either.
>> It's a matter of choice. I can think of a dozen movies that I would
>> choose head of eitehr of these to watch given the amount of fre rtime
>> I
>> have to watch movies these days.
>>
>> But it has nothing to do with content, although perhaps subject matter
>> is an issue in making a choice, preferring an "emotional adrenalin
rush"
>> to a more "visceral adrenalin rush". I like films that disturb me
>> emotionmally and promote thought about "difficult" emotions over films
>> that really just make me choke with a gag reflex....
>>
>> but.... in past there were films like NOTLD DEAD, DAWN OF THE DEAD,
>> TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE, HALLOWEEN, NIKGHTMARE ON ELM STREET, etc,
>> etc... and they all received similar commenatry at the time of their
>> release as films like HOSTEL and SAW receive today.
>>
>> I'm re-reading David Skal's excellent book THE MONSTER SHOW....
>> essential reading for serious horror fans as are all of David's
>> books.... and guess what? The contemporary 1932 critical quotes to
>> FREAKS and MURDERS IN THE RUE MORGUE could almost be identical, just
>> by
>> replacing 'FEAKS' with 'HOSTEL'.
>>
>> So much of this stuff has to do with changing sensibilities and the
need
>> every few years for film makers to "revolt" against the kind of
creeping
>> conservatism that permeates through politics and society and into
>> popular arts (like film). Why do you think American independent film
>> makers did such a huge cage rattel in the late 1960s, apart from
>> protesting another commercially-driven war?
>>
>> BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN and HOSTEL are likely coming out of the same school
>> in some ways... the school of WAKE-UP film making. They may achieve a
>> different aesthetic and through different means, but at least they are
>> honest in their (quite diverse) intentions/methods, unlike something
>> like THE PASSION, which was a gorehound movie masquerading as an
>> uplifting spiritual experience.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>> Erik wrote:
>>
>>> I was in attendance at a screening with Eli Roth in Texas not to long
>>> ago, and while I didn't care for Hostel (or Roth's work in general) I
>>> for one am thankful that hard-core (not in the pornographic sense
>>> that
>>> many attatch to the word) horror is making a comeback.
>>>
>>> I cut my teeth on the Golden Age of Slasher Films during the late
>>> 70's
>>> to the mid 80's and as of late, the genre has become so PC,
>>> watered-down and weak-kneed by catering to the PG-13 teeny-bopper
>>> crowd (as the recent glut of crap with Kevin Williamson's name
>>> attached to it attests) that I thank my bloody stars that a film like
>>> Hostel is even seeing the light of day, much less getting national
>>> distribution. This is nothing more then a drive-in flick at best, and
>>> it's #1 opening was a welcome sight to this ol' gorehound's jaded
>>> retinas.
>>>
>>> I'm not delving into the "bad movies/bad tv debate" as it's pointless
>>> here. I'm outnumbered and will surely get trounced by those with more
>>> time (and by those much wordier then I) to make their case.
>>>
>>> I'm also thankful *I* am the one deciding what I watch, and not
>>> someone who thinks *they* know what's good or bad.
>>> If it's offensive don't watch.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Erik
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
>>>
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>>
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