James-
Its not that I would want to go to the consignor to ask for money
back.....what I really would like to know on a questionable item is the "chain"
that it came from. If one of the "alleged masterminds" of the Universal
Horror Scandal was the consignor, I would think that is cause for alarm.
Also, if it came from someone who is reputable, that would be a reassurance
(unless, of course, the donsignor obtained it from one of the "alleged
masterminds").
Guess there really is no way to be assured on this issue except having
someone you trust examine it. It just seems the auction houses / dealers
have the upper hand in this as they hold the key to at least begin a provenance
check and the buyer does not have the key to fit that lock.
----- Original Message -----
From: James Richard
To: Steven F. Poole
Cc: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 2:52 AM
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Fw: [MOPO] Provenance...............
Steven,
Yes. But even if the seller/auction house did reveal the consigner or
name-provenance of the item you purchased, for practical purposes your only
recourse if you are unhappy with the item is to return it to the seller/auction
house you bought it from and get your money back from them. The fact that the
seller/auction house said they had the item on consignment from say, Brad Pitt,
does not really entitle you to go to directly to Brad Pitt and ask for your
money back. Brad did not sell the item to you -- the seller/auction house did.
That's the whole point of consigning something to a seller or auction house.
Sure, if you wanted to pay for it, a lawyer could probably make the argument
that by consigning the item to the seller/auction house that Brad Pitt was
somehow responsible in a vague kind of "implied warranty" fashion -- some
lawyers will argue any position no matter how tenuous -- but I wouldn't count
on winning that one in court. Selling individual used collectible items "as is"
(which is essentially what we doing here) is not the same thing as the Ford
Motor Company manufacturing millions of automobiles and selling them through a
network on independent franchised dealerships.
In lieu of some kind of convincing third-party authentication opinion
certificate, I think you will start seeing sellers and auction houses putting
aside this traditional "confidentiality" business and clearly stating
provenances and consigners on the higher-priced items. In other fields of
collecting, such as comic books, if an item is from a well-known collector's
horde, that provenance is almost always mentioned by the seller -- it adds
cachet to the item and will often significantly increase its selling price.
Personally, I never really did understand why "consigner confidentiality" was
such a big deal in the movie poster field, but Bruce probably has a viable
theory that ties in with the push 'em ups concept... :)
-- JR
Steven F. Poole wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: Steven F. Poole
To: Richard Halegua Comic Art & Movie Posters
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 12:06 AM
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Provenance...............
Actually, I don't own a SON OF DRACULA, just using that as an
illustration........in my case its another card from another Universal film and
Heritage is not the auction house/dealer in my case.
So, if provenance would not / cannot be disclosed, a dealer or auction
house seems to be putting themselves in the position of taking in back in a No
Questions Asked policy if I happen to suspect it. I would not be able to go any
further back than where I got it from and they would have to honor my feeling
about it?
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