I appreciate the kind sentiments, and I return them, but I notice you did
not refute any of the specifics I gave!
In posting here, I feel like Will Kane in High Noon going into the town
saloon looking for back-up, and getting told "You have have a lot of nerve
coming in here, Marshall, Frank Miller has a lot of friends in this room",
and I suspect that a certain auction house similarly has a lot of friends on
MoPo, given all the zillions of dollars they spread all over the hobby (just
as in my poker analogy).
I would consider asking for those who agree with me to post here, but I
imagine that many would fear possible repercussions against themselves and
maybe rightfully so.
I am content to be a lone voice (of course David K posted eloquently on my
behalf, so I am not truly alone) , and I will make this my final post
*HERE*(if there are no posts attacking me), since I feel the facts of
the matter
are very clear, and time will tell who was right and who was wrong.
If what I believe proves out, I will be happy to know that I hopefully was
able to warn many of what was to come. If not, I will gladly publicly
apologize!
Bruce
On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 3:15 PM, Richard Halegua Comic Art <
sa...@comic-art.com> wrote:
> Bruce
> we will always be friends, hopefully until my dying day
> Just because we disagree does not mean we have to be disagreeable. I love
> you like a brother and even brothers can fight once in a while
>
> but just to add one thing.. in poker terms.
>
> Doyle Brunson (as one example) is a legendary poker player and his book
> helped to bring in untold numbers of players & donkeys
> however, you and I both know things about Doyle that damages his legend.
> Don't damage your own legend.
>
> Rich
>
>
>
> At 01:08 PM 3/21/2010, Bruce Hershenson wrote:
>
> I disagree Rich. To me, you are like the guys who defended Madoff over and
> over up to the end, saying, "How could there be anything wrong when he is so
> huge and has operated on such a high level for many years".
>
> You can see with your own eyes the continued over-grading, the constant
> repeating of items that supposedly sold, the rules that allow bidders to bid
> on their own items, the "house bidder" who bids on *LOTS* of items but
> only win 1% to 2%, the reserves that can be over the estimates, the tiny
> handful of unrecorded floor bidders, the many lawsuits, the past use of
> doctored images until they were caught, etc, etc. Are you disputing any of
> this?
>
> I don't need to argue this with you, or anyone. If, as you say, my calling
> attention to the Emperor's lack of clothes is hurting me, that will only
> help your business.
>
> I hope we still can be friends in spite of our philosophical differences.
> And tme will prove one of us very right and one of us very wrong!
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Richard Halegua Comic Art <
> sa...@comic-art.com> wrote:
> actually Andy, while you are correct for your part.. Bruce is also
> correct for his part.
> there is an abundance of cheating in poker
>
> the biggest problem being that, like Bruce says, the cheaters do tip the
> floor people and seeing as most cheating goes on in the big games, the tips
> are also big, and so the people who can stop it, really don't. The other
> reason it goes on is - who do you complain to?
> If you complain to the Gaming Board, they must be able to find proof. The
> house doesn't look at it because the money being lost is player money - not
> casino money
>
> also, Las Vegas cheating takes on many forms.. It isn't generally speaking
> - the guy holding out cards
> it's 5 people in the 1000-2000 blind game playing the same bankroll against
> one player from out of town with millions of dollars. Mark Cuban was cheated
> out here for $9million by "the big boys". He got his money back because as a
> major tech guy, he figured out what they were doing and got them to give his
> money back.. But the cheaters - who are some of the biggest names - didn't
> suffer any penalties beyond giving the money back.
>
> but cheating in poker takes very many forms from cold-decking, to theft
> etc..
>
> no surprise, there is cash money involved..
>
> However, that said.. I think it is a poor analogy otherwise.
>
> Bruce and I have a disagreement on Heritage, and I have told him so, and
> personally I think his constant bashing of Heritage hurts his own
> reputation. Bruce's reputation in the poster hobby is legendary. His service
> to the hobby will keep his name historically to the forefront. But to those
> of us who watch his regular rants on why Heritage is doing something wrong,
> I liken the situation to this: Do you remember at some point in your life
> you were hot for some super-stoking babe? I mean that one who was
> so-o-o-o-o-o hot you just wanted to marry her & give her everything her
> heart desired until the day you died? Then one day you had your chance and
> you took her to dinner and you saw what she was really like. She chewed gum
> with her mouth open like cow. SDhe smoked cigarettes one after the other.
> She didn't have a dainty laugh, she had one that sounded like a drunk hooker
> and when she spoke she cursed like a truck driver, and finally - she was a
> total Prima Donna to everyone around her. It just ruined your image of her
> and she was no longer this Heavenly Goddess that you worshiped from afar -
> she was just a regular chick with a hot ass and a nasty mouth.
>
> I think that by his constant haranguing of Heritage, Bruce affects his
> reputation negatively and that hurts his legend.
>
> Don't get me wrong.. If Heritage is doing something wrong, or if I'm doing
> something wrong or if anyone is doing something wrong, I'm all for public
> discourse on the issue. But I cannot and I will not rely on hearsay evidence
> to support my claims. I must have real proof and that Hendershott asshole
> doesn't give me much to work with. He doesn't look clean by any stretch of
> the imagination. Bruce likes to point out that people tell him everything
> they win at Heritage, they win at the top of their proxy bids.. I can't
> imagine that anyone would have a business model based on checking out what
> people's proxys are & bidding them out. The work required would negate most
> any benefit. The same goes for those people who believe Bruce shill bids his
> own stuff. I don't believe that either and I never have.
> I know that almost everything I win at Bruce I win at my top bid. I
> absolutely know it. But it isn't because Bruce is bidding me up - it's
> because I bid in real time, so when I won the Argentinian M for $310, it's
> because the underbidder and I are both bidding in real time, trying to save
> money, and so we are both incrementalizing our bids. The other side of the
> coin is that almost everything I lose in Bruce's auctions, I am the
> underbidder and almost never am I way down the bidder list because I'm not
> bidding until the last 10 minutes of the auction, and if it's too high - I
> don't bother bidding. I either win at or near my top bid, and I lose at the
> same level
>
> In the name of disclosure: I will say I do business with both Bruce and
> Heritage and without any doubt I have spent at least 5 times (and more
> likely 10 times) as much money with Bruce in the past year (or any other
> year) as I have with Heritage. Furthermore, my relationships with Bruce and
> Grey Smith are, in my mind, equal and I do not favor either one over the
> other. My only dog in this race is truth, and the interest in not having to
> read any more whiney posts about crooked behavior without any proof that
> such behavior has taken place. If you have real proof, put your money where
> your mouth is and let us have it. If not, your griping looks like rotten
> apples.
>
> Bruce.. did Grey kick your dog when you were kids??
> did he steal your bubble gum?
> did he knock you off your bicycle when you two were racing and push you
> into a puddle??
>
> Bruce, as your friend I say to you that it's time for the acrimony to end.
> I appreciate that you and Heritage compete directly for consignments and
> Heritage makes it painfully difficult to get those great Universal horror
> posters, or those early Oscar winners and that you do indeed suffer in some
> way by not making that money. The solution is not that you can gain on them
> by ragging on them. The solution is that you get more competitive against
> them. There is no need to fight and get bloody noses while everyone else is
> just trying to avoid the punches. Change your ad strategy. The cartoons may
> be fun to read, but I don't think they help much and certainly not nearly as
> much as ads looking for consignments might help. Announce that you're
> finally going to do that great auction with a beautiful catalog you've been
> talking about to some friends and get the merch to fill it. In other words,
> if you want to crush your competition, do it with sound business practices
> and not by spouting negativity. It doesn't do your own reputation any good.
> When the day comes that Hendershott's case goes to trial or gets otherwise
> resolved, you will either have something to crow about OR you will wind up
> apologizing for all the bad things you said when Hendershott's case gets
> dismissed - something which is a distinct possibility.
>
> Rich
>
>
>
> At 06:23 AM 3/21/2010, Andy Neal wrote:
>
> Hmmm interesting to hear lots of mention about poker, bad analogy really
> brucie, to win the most at poker or be excellent at poker you have to know
> probabilities and be able to work them out in a heartbeat and you need to
> understand what outs you have as your going along, also bluffing and knowing
> when to bluff is adventageous.
>
> Just my opinion on the poker comment, the other stuff I couldn't care less
> about, mopo is getting FAR too egotistical these days, I can't wait for the
> recession to end.
>
> Andy
>
> ________________________
>
> On 2010-03-21 13:07:01 +0000 Bruce Hershenson < brucehershen...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Thanks much David. You wrote an eloquent and spirited reply!
> >
> > Here's a further reply. I used to think great movie posters were vastly
> > undervalued, and I bought lots of them at then current prices. As prices
> > rose, many of them no longer seemed undervalued to me, and I sold most of
> > what I had bought, hanging onto my very favorites. Those three "This Gun
> For
> > Hires" were $2500 each, so my assessment was good on that example.
> >
> > Does a Metropolis insert seem undervalued to me at $47,000? No, but there
> > are likely many who feel otherwise, and I am happy they got a bargain,
> and I
> > hope for their sake these kinds of posters go the way of million dollar
> > comics, which I am sorry to say feels totally insane to me, a classic
> > "bubble"..
> >
> > *WHY* I shifted my business model is the same reason i quit playing
> poker.
> > To win the most at poker, you must find the absolute worst players you
> can,
> > and cheaters are rewarded (and the house often looks the other way on
> > cheating, because the cheaters "take care" of those running the game). I
> was
> > unwilling to continue playing on those terms, so I stopped playing
> entirely.
> >
> > When I first started high dollar auctions, I was "the only game in town".
> As
> > many others came along, and when I slowly saw that the majority of high
> > dollar auctions were much like high stakes poker (you do the best when
> you
> > find the absolute most uninformed buyers, and you use "clever" tricks to
> get
> > them to pay more, as with the 2001 re-release half-sheet), and cheaters
> are
> > rewarded (and I believe I have it made clear how this is) and since I
> knew I
> > was not willing to compete for consignments or bidders on those terms, I
> > quit high dollar auctions and shifted to my present model.
> >
> > The result is that, in addition to my earning a living and providing a
> > living for 25 employees, I feel that most of my 31,000 customers
> certainly
> > feel I have provided them with a very useful service, and I bet all of
> them
> > would say I treated them in an open and honest way, unusual for
> collectible
> > auctions. Most or all of my 500+ consignors would likely say I provided
> them
> > with a useful and valuable service, just as David did.
> >
> > There *ARE *those who keep stretching to find bad things to say about me,
> > but oddly they neither buy from me or sell through me, and many people
> have
> > privately guessed at their motivation, which seems painfully obvious.
> >
> > I have nothing against high dollar auctions or high stakes poker, when
> they
> > are 100% honestly run, and there is no deception involved. If I felt I
> could
> > successfully run such an auction today, I would be willing to try, but I
> > doubt I could get enough consignments on those terms, and I truly am
> happier
> > with my current business model.
> >
> > But as David said, I have "reinvented" myself several times over the
> years,
> > and there is no saying I won't do so one more time!
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 5:21 PM, David Kusumoto
> > < davidmkusum...@hotmail.com>wrote:
> >
> >> ** Speaking ONLY for myself, a contemplative confessional from Bruce
> >> about the shifts in his selling ideologies over the span of 20 years
> would
> >> only matter to dealers who compete against Bruce -- and would be of
> little
> >> interest to us collectors. It appears like an attempt to catch him in a
> >> contradiction when in fact we all undergo transformations and re-tooling
> to
> >> ensure self-preservation. I've written thousands of words about Bruce
> and
> >> his consignment model -- and each transformation or attempt at
> >> self-re-invention has been a success. The quantity vs. quality question
> >> seems a back-handed way of saying Bruce no longer sells quality and only
> >> sells mid-range-to-cruddy stuff at high volumes. This is not true from
> >> where I sit as a consumer. No, he might not have a Frankenstein
> one-sheet
> >> come his way very soon -- nor would he care to go back to the "showroom"
> >> model with high overheads -- but he has sold things like the "camel"
> >> poster from "Lawrence of Arabia" for more than $11K during the nadir of
> the
> >> recession, still a record for that title. There is no venue or business
> >> model he has not tried before settling into his current model, hence to
> me
> >> he speaks with experience and some authority. Of course he's not the
> >> FINAL authority, but he's credible. Bruce's churning methods and fast
> pace
> >> have conditioned thousands of collectors AND dealers throughout this
> small
> >> hobby -- many who continue to both BUY and CONSIGN to him -- to
> reflexively
> >> check his listings anyway, as regularly as one would brush their teeth.
> >> Any
> >> collector or dealer who chooses to ignore his listings makes a conscious
> >> choice to pass up a potential bargain.
> >>
> >> ** The most important issue to most of us is still full disclosure and
> >> quality service -- and not questions about why competing dealer "x"
> thought
> >> one way in 1990 and became "y" in 2000 and is now "z" in 2010, e.g.,
> which
> >> to me, as it pertains to Bruce -- is an efficiently run factory
> operation
> >> moving a wide swath of material that's honestly graded for thousands of
> >> customers. If I ever want something akin to the Hope Diamond, I can
> always
> >> consult the Greys, the Seans, the Todds, the Freemans and the Walters
> and
> >> Kirbys and Sams, -- and even the Bruces, etc., etc., of the world.
> (Sorry
> >> if I left anyone out, I've bought from most everyone so it's hard to
> >> remember.) If I was a dealer, I wouldn't be surprised if all of the
> >> aforementioned names -- have shifted their ideologies about poster
> selling
> >> in conjunction with the universal acceptance of the Internet, and have
> >> subsequently found their niches or comfort zones -- and adjusted
> >> accordingly. Some of us still know where to go for certain things. -d.
> >>
> >> =====================
> >> From: Sean Linkenback
> >> To: MOPO-L@listserv.american.edu
> >>
> >> Re: [MOPO] Any bets on METROPOLIS?
> >> Sat, 20 Mar 2010 14:22:52 -0700
> >>
> >>
> >> Bruce,
> >> Could you share the story with us that led to your decision to change
> >> directions as it were in your poster selling philosophy?
> >>
> >> Certainly in the early days of your business you concentrated on
> catering
> >> to "investors" and/or "advanced collectors". Yes, you published your
> sales
> >> list, but your convention appearances and focus of course was on quality
> >> over quantity and in getting those high-dollar pieces for the early
> >> Christie's auctions and working to attract high-end collectors. I even
> >> remember reading a profile on poster investing with you in a Delta
> Skymiles
> >> Magazine, and you related a story where you met with Jose and wanted to
> buy
> >> all 3 copies of the one-sheet he had on "This Gun For Hire".
> >>
> >> What happened that made you do a change and decide to focus on quantity
> >> instead?
> >> Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
> >> ___________________________________________________________________ How
> to
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> >> MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
> > ___________________________________________________________________
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> >
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> >
> >
> >
>
> Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
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>
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