as we all know what happened at some point was internet spreading all over .before that there were lesser sellers who artificially kept all prices high with stores and catalogues/auctions only sales .i think for collectors this has been an amazing evolution to grow their collections , as for sellers it's simple , the quality items that rarely turn up keep their value (or keep rising in value) all the rest has gone down to more reasonable/logical prices with a blown up monopoly .so i personally , though being a seller , would say that as for negative worth on a moral , not a financial level one might question more why in the past all this was so expensive and can now be found so much cheaper ...does a collector struggle with the question : it's now cheaper so the value of my collection has gone down ( he will if he only buys and collects as an investment) or with the question , hey didn't i get badly ripped off in the past by some greedy bastards ? filip
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 13:43:49 -0500 From: ki...@movieart.com Subject: Re: [MOPO] Heritage charges To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU I agree with Rich entirely here. We all resent rising prices, but Heritage is just one of millions of business experiecing rising costs. Kirby McDanielwww.movieart.com On Jun 16, 2016, at 1:37 PM, Richard Halegua Posters + Comic Art <sa...@comic-art.com> wrote: I largely agree with Ira and disagree with Simon in some ways for the most part, I win very little under $100, and so the $19 min bp means nothing as I'm already paying 19.5% if you only bid in the signature auctions, then the $19 min has no effect as nothing sells under $100 in those, so you're only talking about Sunday auctions and in case people don't pay attention, the average item price in an HA sale is $70-100 on a weekly basis (last week they did just short of $41k on 496 listings est $82 per item, with bp). it has at best, a small effect what about those sellers who drive down prices by selling massive amount of posters for $20 and less, including silent & golden age material that previously sold for much higher prices? Aren't they a negative worth discussing? Don't they have a greater effect on collectors, devaluing their collections in real time? Nobody forces anyone to do business with any specific entity. You can choose who you spend money with, just like I do. (this is part of the capiltalist/consumerist theory) If HA has something you want this week, I seriously doubt the extra $5 has much of a curtailing aspect to it Rich At 08:29 AM 6/16/2016, Ira Rubenstein wrote: I guess I come at this from a collector view. And I have never sold anything that I have bought before. So I am probably a little naïve about it all. And if I was selling a lot of items, then of course I would want a maximum of options to sell through. To me the relationship between auction houses and dealers is symbiotic. They both need each other. Dealers bid on auction items all the time in an effort to find something to resell. This helps maintain a floor on pricing. I am sure dealers sell through auctions at times well when they need to liquidate or manage inventory. And I don’t think this is exclusive to Movie Posters. (Books, Coins, Stamps, Baseball cards, Art, etc…) All areas of collections have dealers and auction houses. From a collectors stand point I have relationships with many dealers both in Movie Posters and Animation art. One animation art dealer has done an exceptional job of always calling me when he finds something he knows I will be interested in. Many others don’t. But as a collector it is also fun to participate in Auctions because there is always one item you are looking for. Comes up from time to time. You lose out a few times and then you win. And the fun is to finally win. And at a price you can afford. Or you realize you have to save more to get what you want. OR you see a poster you have never seen before and you decide it looks amazing and you want to hang it on your wall. That’s the fun of discovery. So to me, having healthy auction houses and healthy dealers is best for everyone. I don’t think one can survive without the other. And I don’t think it is a win/lose situation. I can’t speak to people leaving the hobby or staying in it. I would think a lot of it is age of the typical collecting consumer and what type of films they grew up with. I am amazed at what 80’s film posters are selling for when I know there are tens of thousands of copies of each one. (Having worked in the film marketing world) To me, these are the films of their youth and that’s what they want to hang on their wall. It can also be that as people get older they look at getting rid of things, smaller homes, wanting the money to do other things as they live in retirement. I can also see for myself in the next 10 to 15 years as I downsize, I will probably be forced to look hard at starting to sell my collection. And figuring out the best way to do that. Who knows, it may be my retirement career, joining all of you in the dealer world. :) Personally, as a collector/consumer I do like Heritage and I like Bruce at emovieposter. The auctions are well run. Accurate descriptions. Pictures. Billing and packing are easy. A lot done digitally. Heritage Live on a mobile platform is very impressive tech. In my area of work, I am always reminding people to focus on the consumer and both of them have done that. Very well. And if you focus on the consumer first, you will always win. (Steve Jobs lesson) Thank you all for your thoughts. I enjoy these type of discussions as I learn more about the hobby and the business of posters. Best, Ira From: MoPo List < mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU> on behalf of Simon Oram < fab5fre...@btinternet.com> Reply-To: Simon Oram < fab5fre...@btinternet.com> Date: Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 10:41 AM To: " MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU" < MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU> Subject: Re: [MOPO] Heritage charges Yes I think Wim pointed out by what you wrote Ira..”dominant” by definition that means, control or power over others and when that happens a market becomes stale and unexciting, the business of collecting and dealing did seem all more exciting a few years back. It also seems to me that allot of people who had taken up collecting around the millennium mark are, dropping like flies out of the market place, selling up and moving on from it. I can only write what I have been told but, I have been asking. Heritage promises the world to it’s consignors and they expect to get it, it’s a possibility that people only trust them with it. Simon From: Wim Jansen Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2016 3:09 PM To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Subject: Re: [MOPO] Heritage charges I would say as a animation collector too, I was very impressed with their recent animation auction. They have quickly become the dominant auction house for animation art. There’s your answer, coming into the market, flooding it with volume and eliminate the original expert dealers without needing the expertise. Then after that you raise your percentages. I have bought quite a few posters with Heritage and i do trust and value Grey as a straight business guy and a very knowledgable expert, but I always have niggles in the deal after the purchase. In those events I have had contact with a lot of people. It seems like the entire back office consists of temps, there’s a huge turnover of personnel. That does not feel good. Wim Op 16 jun. 2016, om 15:27 heeft Ira Rubenstein <irubenst...@pbs.org> het volgende geschreven: I think you will see that through this move, Heritage will eliminate people listing lower priced items. As a business if they can focus on higher ticket items there is a higher return per item. There is a fixed labor cost per item you list, and as a business obviously you want to maximize your return per item. I am not saying the increase on a min charge is right or wrong. To me it is just a business decision. I would say as a animation collector too, I was very impressed with their recent animation auction. They have quickly become the dominant auction house for animation art. I am curious to the last statement about how the Film Poster Business has lost a lot because of Heritage and their patrons. I am a collector and not a dealer. How has Heritage hurt the business? Is that a overall Dealer perspective? I would also agree with the other statement that there are lots of other venues and in a free trade society, if something gets out of whack, there will always be something new to balance it. Anyway, my .02. Ira From: MoPo List < mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU> on behalf of Simon Oram < fab5fre...@btinternet.com> Reply-To: " fab5fre...@btinternet.com" < fab5fre...@btinternet.com> Date: Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 7:41 AM To: " MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU" < MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU> Subject: Re: [MOPO] Heritage charges Agree..I think it was good to start with now, it seems the film poster business has lost allot because of them? and their patrons. Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. From: Michael Greenwood Sent: Thursday, 16 June 2016 12:23 To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Reply To: Michael Greenwood Subject: Re: [MOPO] Heritage charges I'm sure they justified it to their shareholders in the normal way...growth must come at a cost...to the users. And I imagine they were pleased with this news. The non-stop greed in this world is really intense these days! Thankfully this hobby has other venues and less grabby sellers. M From: MoPo List < mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU> on behalf of Tommy Barr <tommymb...@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2016 5:21 AM To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Subject: [MOPO] Heritage charges Just noticed that from this weekend Heritage Auctions is charging a minimum buyer's commission of $19, an increase of 36%. I just wonder how they justify that? Tommy To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-L&A=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-L&A=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-L&A=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-L&A=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-L&A=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-L&A=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-L&A=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-L&A=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-L&A=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
