While I don't see a real problem here (I never actually saw such a case, which – if necessary – can easily be resolved by one simple edit replacing the ASCII character in the sortname by the typographically correct one ;-) we do have a more acute problem with sortnames. Right now the guidelines asks for maintaining all sorts of diacritics for the sortname: This leads to some absurd results: right now bands using diacritics like "Die Ärzte", "Àgua na boca" or "Les Épis noirs" sort after "Renato Zero", "Warren Zevon" or "Zucchero" (and "Gilbert Bécaud" after "Carla Bruni"). "Chris de Burgh" (sortname "de Burgh, Chris") also (because of the lower case initial) sorts after all "Z"-Names. Any chance to get this sort routine corrected?
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 7:17 PM, Nikki <aei...@gmail.com> wrote: > In my opinion, it's a problem with the music player if it can't sort > unicode characters properly and I would just use what's in the artist > name. We already permit a huge range of characters (mainly accented > ones) which would be problematic for something which doesn't know how to > sort non-ASCII characters. Plus, replacing the characters in sortnames > when tagging with Picard can be done in exactly the same way as > replacing them in artist names if it's a problem for someone. ;) > > Nikki > > Bogdan Butnaru wrote: > > Hello everyone! > > > > I don’t recall seeing this subject mentioned, but I wasn’t always > > along for the whole discussion on RFV2-294. > > > > I’ve been looking through Sortname Style and I don’t notice any > > specific mention of punctuation; there’s only the general rule about > > “stylized names”. So as far as I can tell, the current Miscellaneous > > Guideline applies to sortnames, in the sense that correct punctuation > > is preferred to ASCII but not mandatory. > > > > While that is in itself an acceptable policy, it does potentially > > break the implied intent of a sortname. Imagine the scenario of these > > four bands existing (each name starting after the colon): > > > > 1: X’s a > > 2: X’s aa > > 3: X’s b > > 4: X’s bb > > > > As I understand it, Sortname Style is intended to lead to these four > > names being sorted as above (1-2-3-4). However, if for some reason 1 > > and 3 use one kind of apostrophe and 2 and 4 use a different kind, a > > sorting algorithm that doesn’t collate the two apostrophes as > > identical can sort them as 1-3-2-4 or 2-4-1-3. Similar things can > > happen with the other punctuation marks, but I imagine they’re less > > common in names (as opposed to titles); even if they do happen, it’s > > less likely that they happen several times in the same position. > > > > So, does anyone else think we need to discuss this? > > > > (Even if we decide that we don’t care and we just leave the option to > > the editors, we should probably mention that explicitly in the > > Sortname Style page; I had to read it several times to decide that > > both ASCII and “correct” punctuation is allowed, and I’m still not > > 100% sure. > > > > Also note that even if the MusicBrainz server uses a collation that > > treats the various apostrophes as identical, other systems like music > > players might not.) > > > > -- Bogdan Butnaru > > > > _______________________________________________ > > MusicBrainz-style mailing list > > MusicBrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org > > http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style > > > _______________________________________________ > MusicBrainz-style mailing list > MusicBrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org > http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style >
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