Hi List members, I just forward this for completeness of the thread .
Best regards Nils Valentin Tokyo/Japan http://www.be-known-online.com/mysql ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Re: ANN: Database Workbench 2.4 released Date: Wednesday 12 November 2003 01:00 From: Nils Valentin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Martijn Tonies" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Martijn, thanks for the reply. You replied to me offline, so I keep it that way (if you want it so;-) I already mentioned that I like Open source products, there is a good reason for that, which I would like to explain. When I buy a product I want to use it for a long time. Ideally I want to be able to modify things within the software to my needs. An I believe that open source products are good for this, for other things as well. I installed the software on a Windows 98 machine. The lowest speck machine which I have (I always do this with new software). The speed seems to be reasonable (nothing to complain here ;-) I accessed a few Mysql databases when I got an "Abstract error". I am not sure what caused the software to choke, but I had to restart my machine. When you choose the Blob Editor and try to access a database which you dont have access for then a screen tells me " Access violation at address 4002F584 in module "RTL70.BPL" Read of address FFFFFFFF" While the software contains possibly all kind of tools and features I dont think that the design of the interface is intuitive. The File menu has a point called Preferences. Is there a point in listing up the single sub sections when they lead to the same window containing all properties ? Also the functions should be grouped context sensitive. ( I believe DbVisualizer is a good sample here). See how the context of the menu changes with the user interactions (try the export functions). I would perhaps place the tool buttons on a vertical bar between the left and the right window, letting the image icons change depending which tool you have chosen to see. the tools would be shown in tabs, so that the user sees basically only 1 tab at a time (unless he wants to see more windows than he should be able to cascade the windows or arrange them on the screen). I dont believe in Error No xxx messages. The window should display the meaning for the user. f.e Not: error 1045 but: This combination of username, hostname,db and password is invalid. Also I dont like popup windows reminding me that I have to register the software evrytime when I start the software or click on a special feature. That can be mentioned decently in the statusbar once or always, but NO POPUPS - hope you got this ;-) The Wizard screens remind me of another software called SQLyog (available here http://www.webyog.com/) which was freely available for quite a while ;-) , its right now 30 - 50$. Perhaps the mixture of tools is unique the way you present them ;-) , but I certainly think that the GUI could need a good and thoroughly sorting for the functions. Think about it this way "KISS" - Keep it stupid simple. To many options is like trying to find your car key in the forest (or so ;-). Anyway thats my opinion. I could probaly go on like this for a while... At the end its the user who decides which products he likes and my result is that this product still needs lots of improvements regarding the GUIs intuitivity (and the pricing and the license model of course;-). Best regards Nils Valentin Tokyo/Japan On Monday 10 November 2003 21:08, you wrote: > Hi Nils, > > > > > How do I install this tool on a Unix, Linux or BSD based machine ? > > > > > > The tool itself is Windows based - however, people are running > > > it under Wine and similar emulators. See > > > http://www.upscene.com/documentation/dbw_freebsd_wine.htm > > > for an example. > > > > That was 1 customer, yes thats right, but you dont want to argue that the > > performance will be the same ;-). > > > >From what I've heard, the performance is good. > > > >Wine is a good product, but it is more or > > less for an emergency and not for the everyday basis. There are already > > some > > > products running on, but within limits. > > I'm also not saying that it should run on Unix, Linux or FreeBSD. I'm not > argueing about it either. It's a Windows based tool, plain and simple. You > can connect, of course, to other systems running MySQL. > > > > perhaps messed up? The page is tested with IE and Opera and looks fine > > > in both. > > > > Thank you for asking. I am using Mozilla, Opera and Konqueror. It looks > > fine > > > in all3 browsers, but it was not clear for me that the second note was > > only > > > for the InterXpress for Firebird product. > > Thank you for confirming that at least the pages look the same :-) > > > I believ it would help to list them up on separate pages or perhaps > > change > > the > > > background colour slightly to make it more obvious. > > Perhaps a more detailed difference would enhance the page. Thank you for > the suggestion. > > > > > The module system is probably a nice idea, but shouldnt that allow > > > > to > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > the drivers for a reasonable price ? > > > > > > You are mixing two things, the driver product has nothing to do with > > > Database Workbench. > > > > > > > I found 435$ for the full module software to expensive. I can get > > similar > > > > and > > > > > > > better software easily for under 100$ - ( sometimes even free) which > > > > offer more features and reliability than your product. > > > > > > I'm surprised you can say something like that just a few hours after > > > release > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > Take another look: if you want to use Database Workbench for MySQL > > > only, you can purchase a license for Euro 109,- not Euro 435,- ... If > > > you want more > > > database engines supported, the license price will increase. > > > > The most critical point to me is that the combination of closed source/ > > features/price seesm to be a bit unlucky. > > Did you take a look at the features available? > > > First it doesnt seem to be an open source product (and please correct me > > if I > > > am wrong). > > > > Secodnly, I dont like the idea, that I have to buy for what is supposed > > to > > be > > > an addon. That should be included. And the modul type should easily allow > > cheaper prices for the whole package. > > I'm unsure what you mean by "addon" in this particular context? > > > Have a look at other products and let me know what you think; > > > > www.business.com/search/rslt_default.asp?r4=t&query=database > > +development+tool > > > > >> (over 100 tools introduced > > > > www.10xsoftware.com/products/ > > I'm unsure if any of their products are comparable. > > > www.fabforce.net > > Case tool, without after-case development tools. > > > www.minq.se > > Nice tool, but different feature set, $99. > > > www.dbtools.com.br/EN/dbmanagerpro.php > > The "enterprise" version isn't available for purchase yet. > > > www.ems-hitech.com > > $135 - which a lot less features, but does have a "case" tool > (visual design) > > > www.quest.com/solutions/database_management_products.asp > > If you have more than $2000,- then there are some nice tools > available, but none of them MySQL related. For example, their > test-data-generator tool is more expensive then Database > Workbench including all modules. > > > >> (10 tools introduced) > > > > www.linuxadvisor.net/doc/12029 > > ? > > > www.macosguru.de/ > > MacOS tool. Looks pretty nice. > > > www.easysoft.com/solutions/osx.phtml > > ODBC driver for MacOS. > > > www.hallogram.com/dezign/ > > DeZign is a case tool > > > There are 100^s more. Not all of them are open source. It depends > > strongly > > on > > > which platform you are running the software. > > There are more - you're right about that. Most of the ones you listed > are not open source though. And there are few good open source products > out there - I'm not saying there aren't. Not at all. If you prefer open > source, > the one thing I can say: stick with it. There's no law telling you to buy > tools. > > But have you tried Database Workbench before you wrote this email? If > you're missing features, feel free to write me and they might be included > in the next version. > > > > The InterBase and Firebird modules of Database Workbench have been > > > successfull for quite some years and include many useful tools not > > offered > > > > in order applications. The "per database engine" modules allow you to > > > make a difference between a "one size fits all" product, but still have > > the > > > > ability to use tools like the Test Data Generator > > > > The Test data generator is nowadays integrated in quite a few tools. > > > > > or Schema Migration tool > > > without the need to buy licenses for hundreds or thousands of Euros. > > > > That might be correct, but I still believe that you must be a terrific > > sales > > > person. Open source products can be installed on unlimited machines > > without > > > buying any licenses ;-) (if you want to do so). > > "Firebird" - the database engine - is open source. I'm selling Database > Workbench for Firebird licenses every week. Simply because people like > Database Workbench and what it does for them. > > > Dont get me wrong if it is a good product it might well be worth paying > > for > > > it, but right now I cant see that yet when I compare this to the 100^s of > > open source products out there. > > As I said before - if you like a product you're using, be happy and > continue using it. I'm just adding one more possibility for my existing > customers to use yet another database engine and I'm offering a tool for > new customers that gives you a consistent user interface for multiple > database engines, including tools to quickly copy table/index/constraint > structures across engines without the need to write or modify metadata > statements. And much more :-) > > > With regards, > > Martijn Tonies > Database Workbench - developer tool for InterBase, Firebird & MS SQL > Server. Upscene Productions > http://www.upscene.com -- Nils Valentin Tokyo/Japan http://www.be-known-online.com/mysql/ ------------------------------------------------------- -- Nils Valentin Tokyo/Japan http://www.be-known-online.com/mysql/ -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe: http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
