Quite interested in what everyone thinks of
Insta and fb. Esp Marc?
I have reservations about this corporation. I have pretty much stopped using
fb completely. I now use
Insta but feel quite divided
About it and aim to delete
Quite soon.
Simon
Sent from my spyphone
> On 6 Jun 2021, at 23:57, Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour
> <netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Marc, you say: " I feel the Netbehaviour list would be much improved if
> younger people were using it and more women. I don’t think anyone on the list
> will put their hands up to make any changes. However, if they did, it would
> require fresh insight into media art culture and some of the ideas being
> explored as part of its culture and practice. Doing work on the list takes a
> lot of energy, and for it to take a different direction than what is already
> here would mean inviting new people."
> In fact I have invited people and have advertised the list. As far as "fresh
> insight into media art culture" - I'm not sure what you mean. I learn more
> from the list for example than from the ELO conference which in fact does
> offer "fresh insight" and has a very wide base.
> If you feel my work or approach/es are stale for example, please say so.
> Again, I'm stopping posting work here; that should at least clear some of the
> staleness you find here. I feel odd about doing this, it's kind of a
> withdrawal from a village/home that seemed successful in many ways, but now I
> think not.
> No one is against inviting new people; I assume others have done so as well.
> If you and Ruth are really dissatisfied with the list, please end it. You can
> turn it into an announcements-only list; other lists have done this to good
> effect.
> The reason I feel a bit put out is that you have a community here, for better
> or worse, and you're saying I think you're not satisfied with this community.
> No one is ideologically controlling the direction of the list, there's been
> no fighting on it that I can think of, topics have ranged from performance
> theory to NFT to announcements of forthcoming presentations and so forth. And
> I see these things as good and excellent things, partly a result of your and
> Ruth's generosity over the years.
> You say " media art culture and some of the ideas being explored as part of
> its culture and practice" - and I see that occurring here, but probably not
> in the direction you want. If you feel the ideological issues and platforms
> and discussions here are stale, again, please do shut it down, since it does
> of course reflect on Furtherfield. I can understand you not wanting to put
> more time into it.
> Fwiw, I read the lists you put up, order from there. And there's information
> I can't get otherwise. I've also put up things.
> You sound as if running the list takes a large amount of work. As I
> mentioned, I've run and continue to run lists, and they seem more automated
> to me unless a problem comes up that needs a sysadmin.
> Where is the "lot of energy" you talk about? It would be easy to invite
> people; I'm on the ELO Discord for example and could easily invite people
> from there. I also have a fair amount of followers on Fb of varying ages, and
> ditto.
> If you want, I'll leave the list; certainly the discussion is really
> disheartening to me and quite possibly to others. -
> Best, Alan
>
>
>> On Sun, Jun 6, 2021 at 6:12 PM marc garrett via NetBehaviour
>> <netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
>> Hi Gretta & all,
>>
>> >Firstly, I’d like to extend most heartfelt thanks and admiration to
>> >Furtherfield, Ruth and Marc, for carrying the maintenance, moderation,
>> >and organisation burden of the list for so many years and especially for
>> >being such truly incredible community-builders.
>>
>> Thank you, I’m not sure if some people understand what it takes to do the
>> things we do. It’s hard enough being experimental, but with a political edge
>> and with ethics as well, shit – that’s a hard one to sell to funders in the
>> UK. But we’ve managed to survive after 25 years years.
>>
>> >I do enjoy checking in on Netbehaviour from time to time and chiming in
>> >when a topic I am more engaged in pops up, but I have found myself feeling
>> >more distant from much of the content lately (probably due to a lot of
>> >personal shifts).
>>
>> I have been deeply involved in research for the last few years, which has
>> created a different kind of energy. Also, I have personally moved towards
>> relating to art and social contexts where intersectional politics is at
>> play, especially if it relates to class. I’m no longer full time at
>> Furtherfield, and I am part-time now. I have made time to concentrate on
>> making art again and writing according to the current questions I wish to
>> investigate.
>>
>> Ruth and I are going through our changes, which means new interests and
>> reconnecting to other interests. Naturally, Furtherfiel will reflect this.
>> However, this is not unusual, and this has always been the approach. Ruth
>> and I tend to haggle and argue with the community, and something interesting
>> occurs.
>>
>> >It’s a super generous offer from Ruth/Furtherfield here to pass the reins
>> >to the community rather than simply taking it in a different direction or
>> >shutting it down - totally in keeping with the practices of care that are
>> >at
>> >the basis of everything Furtherfield does. I hope someone puts up their
>> >hand
>> >to take on the job.
>>
>> >I will most likely continue to mostly lurk in the background on the list
>> >post-handover, but I’m also pretty active on instagram. For what it’s
>> >worth, despite all the foibles of the platform itself and tech interests
>> >behind
>> >it, the community of colleagues I’ve found there (many I’ve never met IRL,
>> >some I’ve become ‘real’ friends with after initially connecting online) has
>> >been quite sustaining over the course of the pandemic.
>>
>> I’m using (as are others here) all kinds of platforms. I have been using
>> Instagram mainly to show my collages and Discord for small groups that
>> include specific research ventures, which has been very rewarding.
>>
>> I feel the Netbehaviour list would be much improved if younger people were
>> using it and more women. I don’t think anyone on the list will put their
>> hands up to make any changes. However, if they did, it would require fresh
>> insight into media art culture and some of the ideas being explored as part
>> of its culture and practice. Doing work on the list takes a lot of energy,
>> and for it to take a different direction than what is already here would
>> mean inviting new people.
>>
>> Wishing you well.
>>
>> Marc
>>
>>
>>> On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 at 13:58, Gretta Louw via NetBehaviour
>>> <netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> Firstly, I’d like to extend most heartfelt thanks and admiration to
>>> Furtherfield, Ruth and Marc, for carrying the maintenance, moderation, and
>>> organisation burden of the list for so many years and especially for being
>>> such truly incredible community-builders.
>>>
>>> For me personally I find networks of colleagues on image-based social media
>>> and messaging groups based around specific topics or friendships to be the
>>> most sustaining. I do enjoy checking in on Netbehaviour from time to time
>>> and chiming in when a topic I am more engaged in pops up, but I have found
>>> myself feeling more distant from much of the content lately (probably due
>>> to a lot of personal shifts).
>>>
>>> Even if it’s not my primary contact method I see value in those sorts of
>>> casual and not content-driven channels, which is, I think, what most people
>>> have said in feedback to Ruth’s prompts about Netbehaviour.
>>>
>>> It’s a super generous offer from Ruth/Furtherfield here to pass the reins
>>> to the community rather than simply taking it in a different direction or
>>> shutting it down - totally in keeping with the practices of care that are
>>> at the basis of everything Furtherfield does. I hope someone puts up their
>>> hand to take on the job.
>>>
>>> I will most likely continue to mostly lurk in the background on the list
>>> post-handover, but I’m also pretty active on instagram. For what it’s
>>> worth, despite all the foibles of the platform itself and tech interests
>>> behind it, the community of colleagues I’ve found there (many I’ve never
>>> met IRL, some I’ve become ‘real’ friends with after initially connecting
>>> online) has been quite sustaining over the course of the pandemic.
>>>
>>> Warmly,
>>>
>>> Gretta
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 31. May 2021, at 23:05, Johannes Birringer via NetBehaviour
>>>> <netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I agree with Alan on this, obviously;
>>>> and only now realize the initial question, by Ruth, which i missed, it
>>>> being my first long weekend where i can be outside and relax ('bank
>>>> holiday', this being London).
>>>> I completely like, adore and support this list
>>>> and i hope it goes on forever,
>>>> as I value the open platform community here,
>>>>
>>>> best
>>>> Johannes Birringer
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> From: NetBehaviour <netbehaviour-boun...@lists.netbehaviour.org> on behalf
>>>> of Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour <netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org>
>>>> Sent: 31 May 2021 15:48
>>>> To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
>>>> Cc: Alan Sondheim
>>>> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Like Buses
>>>>
>>>> Hi Ruth and others,
>>>>
>>>> To be honest, it might be better to let Netbehaviour go, if you feel like
>>>> this; the great thing about it, for me, is that it is a completely open
>>>> platform; people can post what they want to it. When you talk about being
>>>> "someone else's guest" you're talking about a very different structure
>>>> like empyre, which has guests and topics. Netbehaviour has been and at
>>>> least for me continues to be more of a community. To "hangout" as well
>>>> implies themes or something like Discord channels.
>>>>
>>>> I've found Netbehaviour invaluable; I wouldn't have gone personally in the
>>>> directions of blockchains, Larf, the work others are doing here - and
>>>> that's what makes it so important - that it's a level playing field. If
>>>> you do want to end it, please do of course. For me, I value the community.
>>>>
>>>> Precisely because Annie objects, it feels like that, like a community. And
>>>> I think we need all sorts of viewpoints; it feels open, and people come
>>>> and go when it's functioning well. I was thinking that this list had less
>>>> activity because of Covid, but the two (smaller) lists I run have bounced
>>>> back.
>>>>
>>>> Of course if you find it a burden, Ruth, that's another issue altogether.
>>>> For me I don't want people to "take the list in another direction" or any
>>>> direction at all. The value is that it's not a stream, that it's not
>>>> dedicated one way or another. I'm interested in seeing not what it might
>>>> become, as you say, but what it is. It reminds me of when I was at
>>>> Furtherfield; people did all sorts of things...
>>>>
>>>> And of course I'm willing to have the list disappear if that's what people
>>>> want; I'm running two lists, Cybermind and Wryting-L; these are
>>>> communities and have been for decades. Wryting-L is dedicated to people's
>>>> writing/writhing/wreathing in - creative work, Cybermind is much quieter
>>>> now, a community that began in 1994 with me Michael Current who died at a
>>>> very young age. But we continue on and it's incredibly rewarding.
>>>>
>>>> Best, Alan
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 6:46 AM Ruth Catlow via NetBehaviour
>>>> <netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org<mailto:netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Dear All,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for raising the question Alan.
>>>>
>>>> I agree with Edward that art as conversation has moved to platforms like
>>>> Instagram. I follow a lot of early (and not so early) personal net art
>>>> inspirations there - Auriea Harvey, Kate Southworth, Gretta Louw and Marc
>>>> Garrett;) - whose work seems to be turning away from reflexive and
>>>> media-critical concerns and returning to image production for a million
>>>> reasons.
>>>>
>>>> Congratulations Rhea, for your contribution to artistry and explanation in
>>>> the tough-to-navigate terrain of art blockchain and NFTs - I find your
>>>> Southebys video an example of clarity and generosity. The breadcrumbs show
>>>> looks very lively!
>>>>
>>>> I find the sharing of links an excellent way to have a kind of
>>>> conversation because it allows people to port into different conversations
>>>> where they occur (in their native territory). It's laborious to try and
>>>> convey all the contexts if everyone isn't involved in the same
>>>> explorations. I find it harder to follow long textual conversations here
>>>> in-list.
>>>>
>>>> Annie, if you have questions I don't understand why you start with a
>>>> declaration of hate. I did try (very imperfectly) to respond to questions
>>>> about NFTs and energy, earlier this year, and I thought we had built some
>>>> shared understanding in the process. One of the things I struggled with at
>>>> that time was the realisation that Netbehaviour no longer functioned for
>>>> me as a community of practice. By which I mean we are no longer united by
>>>> a spirit of common investigation - where people learn, critique, explore
>>>> together - the polarisation is too strong. I participate in a number of
>>>> telegram and discord channels for this purpose now, but I give the most
>>>> energy to those projects in which I am an active participant. My favourite
>>>> "conversations" are inter-media and they co-create artistic community. I'd
>>>> happily talk more about some examples of these (maybe I'll send some links
>>>> soon;)
>>>>
>>>> This list is still very important to me personally - but it somehow sits
>>>> outside of time and production. This sense is emphasised by Alan's use of
>>>> it as a daily performance platform- this keeps the list alive and sets a
>>>> particular tone. I feel it is peopled by a longstanding community of
>>>> artist, techie and thinker friends, connected by a shared experience of
>>>> the early web, who are all "becoming" and are sometimes curious about each
>>>> others' ways and discoveries. The spirit of kind curiosity about art and
>>>> sociality is what I value most here. It feels like an unmanicured part of
>>>> the art-nature web, and I learn from it.
>>>>
>>>> So...
>>>>
>>>> Here's a question we have been talking about at Furtherfield... Is it time
>>>> for us to hand on the Netbehaviour baton?
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps this group of people would be better served by a more focused,
>>>> structured approach, or another style of approach entirely. Personally,
>>>> I'd love to see where other people might take it. I can imagine it
>>>> suddenly shapeshifting into an entirely different creature.
>>>>
>>>> What does everyone think? Would anyone like to take it on? Does it feel
>>>> like the right time?
>>>>
>>>> Do let us know. Here or in a private email. We can talk about what it
>>>> might be, and become.
>>>>
>>>> We would be happy to support the baton handover process and I personally
>>>> would love to come and hang out with you all as someone else's guest; )
>>>>
>>>> warmly
>>>> Ruth
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 3:14 AM rhea via NetBehaviour
>>>> <netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org<mailto:netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Heya everyone.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for your kind wishes. I massively appreciate it.
>>>>
>>>> I have more (but different) news! Some of the blockchain work I've made
>>>> since 2014 has got more artworld attention over the last few months. 👀
>>>>
>>>> I have work in a show -
>>>>
>>>> https://nagel-draxler.de/exhibition/breadcrumbs/
>>>>
>>>> An Auction (there's a video of me talking about the work on the page) -
>>>>
>>>> https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auction/2021/natively-digital-a-curated-nft-sale-2/secret-artwork-content
>>>>
>>>> And a book -
>>>>
>>>> http://www.postmediabooks.it/2021/303surfing/9788874903030.htm
>>>>
>>>> Also @coin_artist has very kindly credited me as an advisor for a piece
>>>> that *she* has at auction -
>>>>
>>>> https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/proof-sovereignty-curated-nft-sale-lady-pheonix/coin-artist-b-1985-18/121279
>>>>
>>>> It's interesting to see what grabs people's imagination. And how much
>>>> money I could have made if I had either worked with NFTs from the start or
>>>> waited until this year. 😺
>>>>
>>>> - Rhea.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NetBehaviour mailing list
>>>> NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org<mailto:NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org>
>>>> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ruth Catlow
>>>> she/her
>>>> Co-founder & Artistic director of Furtherfield & DECAL Decentralised Arts
>>>> Lab
>>>> +44 (0) 77370 02879
>>>>
>>>> *I will only agree to speak at events that are racially and gender
>>>> balanced.
>>>>
>>>> **sending
>>>> thanks<https://www.ovoenergy.com/ovo-newsroom/press-releases/2019/november/think-before-you-thank-if-every-brit-sent-one-less-thank-you-email-a-day-we-would-save-16433-tonnes-of-carbon-a-year-the-same-as-81152-flights-to-madrid.html>
>>>> in advance
>>>>
>>>> Furtherfield disrupts and democratises art and technology through
>>>> exhibitions, labs & debate, for deep exploration, open tools & free
>>>> thinking.
>>>> furtherfield.org<http://www.furtherfield.org/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> DECAL Decentralised Arts Lab is an arts, blockchain & web 3.0 technologies
>>>> research hub
>>>>
>>>> for fairer, more dynamic & connected cultural ecologies & economies now.
>>>>
>>>> decal.is<http://www.decal.is>
>>>>
>>>> Furtherfield is a Not-for-Profit Company Limited by Guarantee
>>>>
>>>> Registered in England and Wales under the Company No.7005205.
>>>>
>>>> Registered business address: Carbon Accountancy, 80-83 Long Lane, London,
>>>> EC1A 9ET.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NetBehaviour mailing list
>>>> NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org<mailto:NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org>
>>>> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> =====================================================
>>>> directory http://www.alansondheim.org tel 718-813-3285
>>>> email sondheim ut panix.com<http://panix.com>, sondheim ut
>>>> gmail.com<http://gmail.com>
>>>> =====================================================
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NetBehaviour mailing list
>>>> NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org
>>>> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NetBehaviour mailing list
>>> NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org
>>> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>>
>>
>> --
>> Wishing you well
>>
>> Marc
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Dr Marc Garrett
>>
>> Co-founder & Artistic director of Furtherfield & DECAL Decentralised Arts Lab
>>
>> Furtherfield disrupts & democratises art and technology through exhibitions,
>> labs & debate, for deep exploration, open tools & free thinking.
>> http://www.furtherfield.org
>>
>> DECAL Decentralised Arts Lab is an arts, blockchain & web 3.0 technologies
>> research hub for fairer, more dynamic & connected cultural ecologies &
>> economies now. http://decal.is/
>>
>> Recent publications:
>>
>> State Machines: Reflections & Actions at the Edge of Digital Citizenship,
>> Finance, & Art. Edited by Yiannis Colakides, Marc Garrett, Inte Gloerich.
>> Institute of Network Cultures, Amsterdam 2019 http://bit.do/eQgg3
>>
>> Artists Re:thinking the Blockchain. Eds, Ruth Catlow, Marc Garrett, Nathan
>> Jones, & Sam Skinner. Liverpool Press - http://bit.ly/2x8XlMK
>> _______________________________________________
>> NetBehaviour mailing list
>> NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org
>> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>
>
> --
> =====================================================
> directory http://www.alansondheim.org tel 718-813-3285
> email sondheim ut panix.com, sondheim ut gmail.com
> =====================================================
> _______________________________________________
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org
> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
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