Honestly this becomes complicated. I do appreciate what Marc and Ruth did and what they do now. I profited from it and still do, but I think you also profitted from my presence and contributions as we all do from Alan's, Patrick's Johannesses, Gretta's, helen's, Simon's, Rhea's, Antije's just to name a few who posted lately. I would really regret it if Alan stopped posting, and I don't see why you should Alan - your posts might not always be read, but are influential when people do, so please don't. What did Ruth say around 650 subscribers? That makes me feel akward ... If that isn't potential empty potential dustbin potential, so, either the lists continues as a campfire place (I feel it's more like a salon with a fire in winter time, a save place to undo the turmoils outside) and would best be cleaned of surplus to be left with a cosy intimate group where we can discuss and fight and "love". or, this potential could be activated by a "new" direction, as Marc expresses it. I don't know who or what would have potential to shake up the lurking, sleeping masses. ??? I can't and I also don't want to. I still believe in conversations as the driving force for change. So if someone wants to put energy in the fireplace I am (t)here to try to structure that a bit. but, but, but I suddenly realise this might be a nostalgic attitude, a not accepting of changes that long has been acted, of routes that bifurcated and the fact that networks also fall to pieces. It feels so sad.
and yes we should share costs if netbehaviour is acted as being outside furtherfield can furtherfield put their paypal here, so I can donate <3 Annie let it go, let it go, let it go On Mon, Jun 7, 2021 at 12:59 AM Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour < netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote: > Hi Marc, you say: " I feel the Netbehaviour list would be much improved if > younger people were using it and more women. I don’t think anyone on the > list will put their hands up to make any changes. However, if they did, it > would require fresh insight into media art culture and some of the ideas > being explored as part of its culture and practice. Doing work on the list > takes a lot of energy, and for it to take a different direction than what > is already here would mean inviting new people." > In fact I have invited people and have advertised the list. As far as > "fresh insight into media art culture" - I'm not sure what you mean. I > learn more from the list for example than from the ELO conference which in > fact does offer "fresh insight" and has a very wide base. > If you feel my work or approach/es are stale for example, please say so. > Again, I'm stopping posting work here; that should at least clear some of > the staleness you find here. I feel odd about doing this, it's kind of a > withdrawal from a village/home that seemed successful in many ways, but now > I think not. > No one is against inviting new people; I assume others have done so as > well. > If you and Ruth are really dissatisfied with the list, please end it. You > can turn it into an announcements-only list; other lists have done this to > good effect. > The reason I feel a bit put out is that you have a community here, for > better or worse, and you're saying I think you're not satisfied with this > community. No one is ideologically controlling the direction of the list, > there's been no fighting on it that I can think of, topics have ranged from > performance theory to NFT to announcements of forthcoming presentations and > so forth. And I see these things as good and excellent things, partly a > result of your and Ruth's generosity over the years. > You say " media art culture and some of the ideas being explored as part > of its culture and practice" - and I see that occurring here, but probably > not in the direction you want. If you feel the ideological issues and > platforms and discussions here are stale, again, please do shut it down, > since it does of course reflect on Furtherfield. I can understand you not > wanting to put more time into it. > Fwiw, I read the lists you put up, order from there. And there's > information I can't get otherwise. I've also put up things. > You sound as if running the list takes a large amount of work. As I > mentioned, I've run and continue to run lists, and they seem more automated > to me unless a problem comes up that needs a sysadmin. > Where is the "lot of energy" you talk about? It would be easy to invite > people; I'm on the ELO Discord for example and could easily invite people > from there. I also have a fair amount of followers on Fb of varying ages, > and ditto. > If you want, I'll leave the list; certainly the discussion is really > disheartening to me and quite possibly to others. - > Best, Alan > > > On Sun, Jun 6, 2021 at 6:12 PM marc garrett via NetBehaviour < > netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote: > >> Hi Gretta & all, >> >> >Firstly, I’d like to extend most heartfelt thanks and admiration to >> >Furtherfield, Ruth and Marc, for carrying the maintenance, moderation, >> >and organisation burden of the list for so many years and especially for >> >being such truly incredible community-builders. >> >> Thank you, I’m not sure if some people understand what it takes to do the >> things we do. It’s hard enough being experimental, but with a political >> edge and with ethics as well, shit – that’s a hard one to sell to funders >> in the UK. But we’ve managed to survive after 25 years years. >> >> >I do enjoy checking in on Netbehaviour from time to time and chiming in >> >when a topic I am more engaged in pops up, but I have found myself >> feeling >> >more distant from much of the content lately (probably due to a lot of >> personal shifts). >> >> I have been deeply involved in research for the last few years, which has >> created a different kind of energy. Also, I have personally moved towards >> relating to art and social contexts where intersectional politics is at >> play, especially if it relates to class. I’m no longer full time at >> Furtherfield, and I am part-time now. I have made time to concentrate on >> making art again and writing according to the current questions I wish to >> investigate. >> >> Ruth and I are going through our changes, which means new interests and >> reconnecting to other interests. Naturally, Furtherfiel will reflect this. >> However, this is not unusual, and this has always been the approach. Ruth >> and I tend to haggle and argue with the community, and something >> interesting occurs. >> >> >It’s a super generous offer from Ruth/Furtherfield here to pass the >> reins >> >to the community rather than simply taking it in a different direction >> or >> >shutting it down - totally in keeping with the practices of care that >> are at >> >the basis of everything Furtherfield does. I hope someone puts up their >> hand >> >to take on the job. >> >> >I will most likely continue to mostly lurk in the background on the list >> >post-handover, but I’m also pretty active on instagram. For what it’s >> >worth, despite all the foibles of the platform itself and tech interests >> behind >> >it, the community of colleagues I’ve found there (many I’ve never met >> IRL, >> >some I’ve become ‘real’ friends with after initially connecting online) >> has >> >been quite sustaining over the course of the pandemic. >> >> I’m using (as are others here) all kinds of platforms. I have been using >> Instagram mainly to show my collages and Discord for small groups that >> include specific research ventures, which has been very rewarding. >> >> I feel the Netbehaviour list would be much improved if younger people >> were using it and more women. I don’t think anyone on the list will put >> their hands up to make any changes. However, if they did, it would require >> fresh insight into media art culture and some of the ideas being explored >> as part of its culture and practice. Doing work on the list takes a lot of >> energy, and for it to take a different direction than what is already here >> would mean inviting new people. >> >> Wishing you well. >> >> Marc >> >> On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 at 13:58, Gretta Louw via NetBehaviour < >> netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote: >> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> Firstly, I’d like to extend most heartfelt thanks and admiration to >>> Furtherfield, Ruth and Marc, for carrying the maintenance, moderation, and >>> organisation burden of the list for so many years and especially for being >>> such truly incredible community-builders. >>> >>> For me personally I find networks of colleagues on image-based social >>> media and messaging groups based around specific topics or friendships to >>> be the most sustaining. I do enjoy checking in on Netbehaviour from time to >>> time and chiming in when a topic I am more engaged in pops up, but I have >>> found myself feeling more distant from much of the content lately (probably >>> due to a lot of personal shifts). >>> >>> Even if it’s not my primary contact method I see value in those sorts of >>> casual and not content-driven channels, which is, I think, what most people >>> have said in feedback to Ruth’s prompts about Netbehaviour. >>> >>> It’s a super generous offer from Ruth/Furtherfield here to pass the >>> reins to the community rather than simply taking it in a different >>> direction or shutting it down - totally in keeping with the practices of >>> care that are at the basis of everything Furtherfield does.* I hope >>> someone puts up their hand to take on the job. * >>> >>> I will most likely continue to mostly lurk in the background on the list >>> post-handover, but I’m also pretty active on instagram >>> <https://www.instagram.com/grettalouw/>. For what it’s worth, despite >>> all the foibles of the platform itself and tech interests behind it, the >>> community of colleagues I’ve found there (many I’ve never met IRL, some >>> I’ve become ‘real’ friends with after initially connecting online) has been >>> quite sustaining over the course of the pandemic. >>> >>> Warmly, >>> >>> Gretta >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 31. May 2021, at 23:05, Johannes Birringer via NetBehaviour < >>> netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote: >>> >>> I agree with Alan on this, obviously; >>> and only now realize the initial question, by Ruth, which i missed, it >>> being my first long weekend where i can be outside and relax ('bank >>> holiday', this being London). >>> I completely like, adore and support this list >>> and i hope it goes on forever, >>> as I value the open platform community here, >>> >>> best >>> Johannes Birringer >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: NetBehaviour <netbehaviour-boun...@lists.netbehaviour.org> on >>> behalf of Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour < >>> netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> >>> Sent: 31 May 2021 15:48 >>> To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity >>> Cc: Alan Sondheim >>> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Like Buses >>> >>> Hi Ruth and others, >>> >>> To be honest, it might be better to let Netbehaviour go, if you feel >>> like this; the great thing about it, for me, is that it is a completely >>> open platform; people can post what they want to it. When you talk about >>> being "someone else's guest" you're talking about a very different >>> structure like empyre, which has guests and topics. Netbehaviour has been >>> and at least for me continues to be more of a community. To "hangout" as >>> well implies themes or something like Discord channels. >>> >>> I've found Netbehaviour invaluable; I wouldn't have gone personally in >>> the directions of blockchains, Larf, the work others are doing here - and >>> that's what makes it so important - that it's a level playing field. If you >>> do want to end it, please do of course. For me, I value the community. >>> >>> Precisely because Annie objects, it feels like that, like a community. >>> And I think we need all sorts of viewpoints; it feels open, and people come >>> and go when it's functioning well. I was thinking that this list had less >>> activity because of Covid, but the two (smaller) lists I run have bounced >>> back. >>> >>> Of course if you find it a burden, Ruth, that's another issue >>> altogether. For me I don't want people to "take the list in another >>> direction" or any direction at all. The value is that it's not a stream, >>> that it's not dedicated one way or another. I'm interested in seeing not >>> what it might become, as you say, but what it is. It reminds me of when I >>> was at Furtherfield; people did all sorts of things... >>> >>> And of course I'm willing to have the list disappear if that's what >>> people want; I'm running two lists, Cybermind and Wryting-L; these are >>> communities and have been for decades. Wryting-L is dedicated to people's >>> writing/writhing/wreathing in - creative work, Cybermind is much quieter >>> now, a community that began in 1994 with me Michael Current who died at a >>> very young age. But we continue on and it's incredibly rewarding. >>> >>> Best, Alan >>> >>> On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 6:46 AM Ruth Catlow via NetBehaviour < >>> netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org< >>> mailto:netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org >>> <netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org>>> wrote: >>> Dear All, >>> >>> Thanks for raising the question Alan. >>> >>> I agree with Edward that art as conversation has moved to platforms like >>> Instagram. I follow a lot of early (and not so early) personal net art >>> inspirations there - Auriea Harvey, Kate Southworth, Gretta Louw and Marc >>> Garrett;) - whose work seems to be turning away from reflexive and >>> media-critical concerns and returning to image production for a million >>> reasons. >>> >>> Congratulations Rhea, for your contribution to artistry and explanation >>> in the tough-to-navigate terrain of art blockchain and NFTs - I find your >>> Southebys video an example of clarity and generosity. The breadcrumbs show >>> looks very lively! >>> >>> I find the sharing of links an excellent way to have a kind of >>> conversation because it allows people to port into different conversations >>> where they occur (in their native territory). It's laborious to try and >>> convey all the contexts if everyone isn't involved in the same >>> explorations. I find it harder to follow long textual conversations here >>> in-list. >>> >>> Annie, if you have questions I don't understand why you start with a >>> declaration of hate. I did try (very imperfectly) to respond to questions >>> about NFTs and energy, earlier this year, and I thought we had built some >>> shared understanding in the process. One of the things I struggled with at >>> that time was the realisation that Netbehaviour no longer functioned for me >>> as a community of practice. By which I mean we are no longer united by a >>> spirit of common investigation - where people learn, critique, explore >>> together - the polarisation is too strong. I participate in a number of >>> telegram and discord channels for this purpose now, but I give the most >>> energy to those projects in which I am an active participant. My favourite >>> "conversations" are inter-media and they co-create artistic community. I'd >>> happily talk more about some examples of these (maybe I'll send some links >>> soon;) >>> >>> This list is still very important to me personally - but it somehow sits >>> outside of time and production. This sense is emphasised by Alan's use of >>> it as a daily performance platform- this keeps the list alive and sets a >>> particular tone. I feel it is peopled by a longstanding community of >>> artist, techie and thinker friends, connected by a shared experience of the >>> early web, who are all "becoming" and are sometimes curious about each >>> others' ways and discoveries. The spirit of kind curiosity about art and >>> sociality is what I value most here. It feels like an unmanicured part of >>> the art-nature web, and I learn from it. >>> >>> So... >>> >>> Here's a question we have been talking about at Furtherfield... Is it >>> time for us to hand on the Netbehaviour baton? >>> >>> Perhaps this group of people would be better served by a more focused, >>> structured approach, or another style of approach entirely. Personally, I'd >>> love to see where other people might take it. I can imagine it suddenly >>> shapeshifting into an entirely different creature. >>> >>> What does everyone think? Would anyone like to take it on? Does it feel >>> like the right time? >>> >>> Do let us know. Here or in a private email. We can talk about what it >>> might be, and become. >>> >>> We would be happy to support the baton handover process and I personally >>> would love to come and hang out with you all as someone else's guest; ) >>> >>> warmly >>> Ruth >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 3:14 AM rhea via NetBehaviour < >>> netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org< >>> mailto:netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org >>> <netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org>>> wrote: >>> Heya everyone. >>> >>> Thank you for your kind wishes. I massively appreciate it. >>> >>> I have more (but different) news! Some of the blockchain work I've made >>> since 2014 has got more artworld attention over the last few months. 👀 >>> >>> I have work in a show - >>> >>> https://nagel-draxler.de/exhibition/breadcrumbs/ >>> >>> An Auction (there's a video of me talking about the work on the page) - >>> >>> >>> https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auction/2021/natively-digital-a-curated-nft-sale-2/secret-artwork-content >>> >>> And a book - >>> >>> http://www.postmediabooks.it/2021/303surfing/9788874903030.htm >>> >>> Also @coin_artist has very kindly credited me as an advisor for a piece >>> that *she* has at auction - >>> >>> >>> https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/proof-sovereignty-curated-nft-sale-lady-pheonix/coin-artist-b-1985-18/121279 >>> >>> It's interesting to see what grabs people's imagination. And how much >>> money I could have made if I had either worked with NFTs from the start or >>> waited until this year. 😺 >>> >>> - Rhea. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>> NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org< >>> mailto:NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org >>> <NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org>> >>> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Ruth Catlow >>> she/her >>> Co-founder & Artistic director of Furtherfield & DECAL Decentralised >>> Arts Lab >>> +44 (0) 77370 02879 >>> >>> *I will only agree to speak at events that are racially and gender >>> balanced. >>> >>> **sending thanks< >>> https://www.ovoenergy.com/ovo-newsroom/press-releases/2019/november/think-before-you-thank-if-every-brit-sent-one-less-thank-you-email-a-day-we-would-save-16433-tonnes-of-carbon-a-year-the-same-as-81152-flights-to-madrid.html> >>> in advance >>> >>> Furtherfield disrupts and democratises art and technology through >>> exhibitions, labs & debate, for deep exploration, open tools & free >>> thinking. >>> furtherfield.org<http://www.furtherfield.org/> >>> >>> >>> DECAL Decentralised Arts Lab is an arts, blockchain & web 3.0 >>> technologies research hub >>> >>> for fairer, more dynamic & connected cultural ecologies & economies now. >>> >>> decal.is<http://www.decal.is> >>> >>> Furtherfield is a Not-for-Profit Company Limited by Guarantee >>> >>> Registered in England and Wales under the Company No.7005205. >>> >>> Registered business address: Carbon Accountancy, 80-83 Long Lane, >>> London, EC1A 9ET. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>> NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org< >>> mailto:NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org >>> <NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org>> >>> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ===================================================== >>> directory http://www.alansondheim.org tel 718-813-3285 >>> email sondheim ut panix.com<http://panix.com>, sondheim ut gmail.com< >>> http://gmail.com> >>> ===================================================== >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>> NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org >>> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>> NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org >>> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>> >> >> >> -- >> Wishing you well >> >> Marc >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Dr Marc Garrett >> >> Co-founder & Artistic director of Furtherfield & DECAL Decentralised Arts >> Lab >> >> Furtherfield disrupts & democratises art and technology through >> exhibitions, labs & debate, for deep exploration, open tools & free >> thinking. http://www.furtherfield.org >> >> DECAL Decentralised Arts Lab is an arts, blockchain & web 3.0 >> technologies research hub for fairer, more dynamic & connected cultural >> ecologies & economies now. http://decal.is/ >> >> Recent publications: >> >> State Machines: Reflections & Actions at the Edge of Digital Citizenship, >> Finance, & Art. Edited by Yiannis Colakides, Marc Garrett, Inte Gloerich. >> Institute of Network Cultures, Amsterdam 2019 http://bit.do/eQgg3 >> >> Artists Re:thinking the Blockchain. Eds, Ruth Catlow, Marc Garrett, >> Nathan Jones, & Sam Skinner. Liverpool Press - http://bit.ly/2x8XlMK >> _______________________________________________ >> NetBehaviour mailing list >> NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org >> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >> > > > -- > *=====================================================* > > *directory http://www.alansondheim.org <http://www.alansondheim.org> tel > 718-813-3285**email sondheim ut panix.com <http://panix.com>, sondheim ut > gmail.com <http://gmail.com>* > *=====================================================* > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org > https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >
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