Hi Helen, That's a very good point... "but i do believe it will matter to those in the future who need to know alternative histories, just as many of us have needed to hunt out our own alternative pasts."
What future artists need to know is that they can make their own contexts beyond the given structures, shoved down their metaphorical gullets ;p-) wishing you well. marc On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 3:28 PM, helen varley jamieson < he...@creative-catalyst.com> wrote: > the future will indeed choose what is important to preserve, & i prefer > to put my energies into making work rather than trying to anticipate what > might happen in the future. but that of course means that it's up to those > who have the power in the future to make decisions about what's worth > preserving, & we know that this will probably exclude many marginalised > groups. as most of us on this list are operating outside of mainstream arts > structures & academies, it's likely that most of us will be quietly > forgotten. that doesn't matter to me personally, but i do believe it will > matter to those in the future who need to know alternative histories, just > as many of us have needed to hunt out our own alternative pasts. > > On 4/03/15 5:42 10AM, Pall Thayer wrote: > > I agree with Randall (agreeing with Rushkoff) that we live in an > ever-ever-present tense and this also ties into Paul Virilio's perspective > of real-time. But both of these phenomena are exactly what they describe, > they are the now and cannot be projected onto the past nor the future in > any meaningful way. The future will choose what it deems important. It > doesn't really make any sense for us to be concerned with that at this > point. If we decide to create our work in ways that will make it more > accessible and/or easier to preserve for future generations, then we're > limiting ourselves. If someone does choose that direction for those > reasons, I would wager that they're going to be the ones that become as > irrelevant as Bouguereau, etc. > > On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 11:22 PM, Pall Thayer <pallt...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> The notion that we might be "erasing our historical past as we create it >> for the digital future" sounds somewhat absurd and escapist to me. If we >> are not recognized for our efforts in the future, we should chalk it up to >> a failure of our present to find a means to preserve our work? We all think >> we're creating important and relevant work but if the future doesn't come >> up with a way to extract and preserve it, then it probably didn't mean that >> much to them. >> >> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 9:50 PM, Kath O'Donnell <alia...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> yes, that's likely true. we hope the future might be interested but who >>> knows what they'll be thinking of by then. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 4 March 2015 at 13:29, Pall Thayer <pallt...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> It's interesting to consider what we, in our current >>>> ever-present-present, might think future generations will be interested in. >>>> We're probably wrong. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 12:26 PM, Randall Packer <rpac...@zakros.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Kath, you’re last remarks are particularly relevant in regards to >>>>> the emerging digital natives and millennials. My teaching is centered >>>>> around the study of the digital native as a kind of anthropological >>>>> research. It seems there is a clear trend towards giving up on privacy, >>>>> and >>>>> a growing lack of concern for preservation, as you suggest. Of course when >>>>> you are 20 you might not think it is important to save anything, but in >>>>> fact, we have a social media industry focused on information as more and >>>>> more transient. The social media of today is about the NOW, what is at the >>>>> top of our feed, which comes to our screen in the Moment, and then fades >>>>> in >>>>> descending chronological order into a past we are no longer interested in. >>>>> As Douglas Rushkoff has written in Present Shock, we live in an >>>>> ever-present-present tense, our abbreviated attention span revolving >>>>> around >>>>> the here and now. >>>>> >>>>> >>> I suppose it's really up to how much people care about these >>>>> things, and whether they work towards saving some of it or preparing for >>>>> the future. >>>>> >>>>> >> What in fact are we leaving behind for future generations on our >>>>> hard drives and cloud >>>>> repositories? And how will the technological culture of today be viewed >>>>> when these values are no longer decipherable. Are we in fact erasing >>>>> our >>>>> historical past as we create it for the digital future? >>>>> >>>>> I think this is a real issue. though we try to save some things using >>>>> archives, the changing formats and technology (and speed of change) is >>>>> causing data to be lost or at the very least, harder/longer to >>>>> recover/republish (especially if they need converting later on). it's >>>>> covering both net art and personal items such as home photos which are >>>>> generally no longer printed, and home videos. I also wonder what future >>>>> archeologists will think of our surviving buried rubbish. so whilst I love >>>>> the net, I think it's important to go back to hand made physical art and >>>>> craft too. if there is some pulse in the future which wipes all the >>>>> technology we'll be left with a gap from our digital/online years. let's >>>>> hope the libraries survive. I've heard of projects such as printed copies >>>>> of Wikipedia, but I wonder how many they print and how distributed these >>>>> are. (plus how often as WP changes so quickly). in smaller communities >>>>> such >>>>> as music communities (for one example), there's less event flyers printed >>>>> out - they are all online or (worse) only on Facebook as event listings, >>>>> which means they are lost over very short times. I suppose it's really up >>>>> to how much people care about these things, and whether they work towards >>>>> saving some of it or preparing for the future. >>>>> >>>>> looking forward to this month. checking out the artworks now - >>>>> they're looking great >>>>> thanks >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 3 March 2015 at 06:17, Randall Packer <rpac...@zakros.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> [snip] >>>>>> >>>>>> Here are some questions to consider: >>>>>> >>>>>> Are we in fact producing a cultural history that emanates from the >>>>>> language of computers? Are the cultural references of today >>>>>> increasingly >>>>>> coded in numerical values that will need to be compiled and encoded >>>>>> in the >>>>>> far future by curious historians of the 21st century? What in fact >>>>>> are we >>>>>> leaving behind for future generations on our hard drives and cloud >>>>>> repositories? And how will the technological culture of today be >>>>>> viewed >>>>>> when these values are no longer decipherable. Are we in fact erasing >>>>>> our >>>>>> historical past as we create it for the digital future? >>>>>> >>>>>> Randall >>>>>> >>>>>> [snip] >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ NetBehaviour >>>>> mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> ***************************** >>>> Pall Thayer >>>> artist >>>> http://pallthayer.dyndns.org >>>> ***************************** >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> ***************************** >> Pall Thayer >> artist >> http://pallthayer.dyndns.org >> ***************************** >> > > > > -- > ***************************** > Pall Thayer > artist > http://pallthayer.dyndns.org > ***************************** > > > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing > listNetBehaviour@netbehaviour.orghttp://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > > -- > helen varley jamieson > he...@creative-catalyst.com > http://www.creative-catalyst.com > http://www.talesfromthetowpath.net > http://www.upstage.org.nz > > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >
_______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
