Andreas Broeckmann <mailto:a...@mikro.in-berlin.de>
25. November 2020 um 10:56
Sean, Brian, others, thank you for the interesting and engaging
contributions. (Some of it gets a bit cryptic since it refers to
political discourses that are not immediately apparent, at least to
this reader, but that's generally OK for a most-of-the-time lurker.)
Sean Cubitt wrote (Nov 24, 2020 at 3:53 PM):
> Any 21st century politics has to be formed by an alliance of the
> excluded - human, ecological and - I would add, though it needs a
> longer argument - technological.
I wonder whether you could expand on this a bit; I understand the
argument (I don't know whether you would call it posthumanist, for
lack of a better word I would), but i cannot get my head around the
idea how the anthropo-logical systems of political representation, of
governance, could be transformed into systems that would encompass
nonhuman beings, incl. technological, as equals.
You are imputing that all of the following: women, ex-slaves,
migrants, oceans, mountains, [technics], are all "excluded" in a way
that can be overcome. I would maintain that what may have been
unthinkable for some people in some places in some past (that women,
ex-slaves, migrants would have a say in how they are governed), is of
a different order, not only because it relates to the way in which
humans treat other humans (thus an intra-anthropological issue), but
because these once excluded individuals and groups can speak for
themselves in a human language.
I agree that all humans must factor the oceans, mountains, trees,
etc., into the way they live on the Earth (some do), and I also agree
that capitalism systematically treats these as cheap or free
resources. (But maybe it is not only capitalism, but homo sapiens in
general? What has brought about and sustained the
non-nature-exploitative civilisations?)
But I wonder what the "voice" of the oceans, mountains, trees is going
to be. Will that "voice" be the storms, the droughts, the fires? Or
will it be the voice of human scientists (some of whom search for the
sentience of trees and stones, while others support geo-engineering,
and yet others look for the next site for open pit mining)?
And then there is the question of how the "technological" is brought
into the alliance of the excluded...
Regards,
-a
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Sean Cubitt <mailto:sean.cub...@unimelb.edu.au>
25. November 2020 um 01:19
War: is already the de facto result of climate change in what used to
be the Fertile Crescent. Trump damn near made it an issue of war on
the Mexican border. If Australia wasn't a federation, its states would
be at war over the selling off of the Murray Darling river system's
water. And the pyrocene is entrenched in Australia.
There used to be a sour joke: There are Irish nationalists, Welsh
Nationalists, Scottish nationalists and... English Greens. Like
anarcho-fascists (Dominic Cummings, late of Downing Street, was just
such a right-wing situationist), green-nationalists are equally
revanchist.
Crutzen and Stoermer closed their 2000 proposal for the term
'Anthropocene' thus:
'An exciting, but also difficult and daunting task lies ahead of the
global research and engineering community to guide mankind towards
global, sustainable, environmental management'
Geoengineering by a class of scientists (shades of HG Wells' Shape of
Things to Come') may be as risky as scientists running nuclear
programs. Tho maybe Wells also had something smart behind his
aeronautical Übermenschen - world government. There's a good history
of the UN that uses the Victorian poet Tenison's lofty vision of The
Parliament of Man for its title - the gender is clearly out; but so is
the speciesism. Rancière argues that politics occurs when the excluded
demand a part in their governance - a demand that changes government
permanently (as women and ex-slaves have done already). It is
unthinkable that oceans and mountains should have a seat in
government, just as it was unthinkable for women - and still is
unthinkable for migrants - to have a say in how they are governed. The
unthinkable has to be thought.
Eco-socialism yes - but only if the 'social' is rethought - and
re-practiced - no longer exclusively as human: The Commons is a better
phrase, common land, general intellect (including those forms it takes
when congealed into machines and infrastructures). We could start with
that absurd contradiction 'intellectual property' - commons as
peer-to-peer ecology/economy may start from undoing at least property
as core concept of western Enlightenment. That this implies undoing
the 'proper' as the principle of individualism is one way to recognise
where anarchism belongs to capital and when it doesn't
Think local, act global
s
Sean Cubitt | He/Him
Professor of Screen Studies
School of Culture and Communication
W104 John Medley Building
University of Melbourne
Grattan Street
Victoria 3010
AUSTRALIA
scub...@unimelb.edu.au
New Book: Anecdotal Evidence
https://global.oup.com/academic/product/anecdotal-evidence-9780190065720?lang=en&cc=au#
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Brian Holmes <bhcontinentaldr...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, 25 November 2020 10:29 AM
*To:* Sean Cubitt <sean.cub...@unimelb.edu.au>
*Cc:* nettime-l@mail.kein.org <nettime-l@mail.kein.org>
*Subject:* [EXT] Re: <nettime> Thoughts on coups
*
*UoM notice: *External email. Be cautious of links, attachments, or
impersonation attempts
*
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 3:53 PM Sean Cubitt
<sean.cub...@unimelb.edu.au <mailto:sean.cub...@unimelb.edu.au>> wrote:
Nationalism builds on the other great crisis of our times,
migration. Post-nationalism means opening borders. Only that way
will the wealthy learn that removing the causes of migration -
war, pandemic, climate change, colonialism - is the only way to
survive (unless of course you're one of the billionaire class)
This is for certain, because the only alternative to opening borders -
and at the same time, engaging in co-development strategies that allow
some people, at least, to remain where they are - is war plain and
simple. Climate change is going to translate into burnt crops, forced
migration and war long before rising seas drive people out of lower
Manhattan. And state collapse induced by neoliberalism will do the
same. The current political economy is a vicious circle getting worse,
2020 has sure made that clear!
Any 21st century politics has to be formed by an alliance of the
excluded - human, ecological and - I would add, though it needs a
longer argument - technological
The question I have, is how to build an effective alliance of the
excluded, one that does not become a wrecking ball in its own right?
A lot of anarchism is now doing the work of neoliberalism, it's
heavily nihilistic. Autonomism itself was an uneasy fusion,
anarcho-communism, but the communist part was gradually reduced to a
kind of fantasy for intellectuals whose real politics were anarchist
by default - not their own default, but because every attempt to
construct a state-for-the-multitudes was foreclosed. In the absence of
a constructive principle you get alienated people looking to
accelerate the breakdown, on both right and left btw. The US is
rampant with that kind of accelerationist now - in fact, on the
extreme right they describe themselves with that exact word.
I think we need an eco-state. I mean a form of social coordination
that doesn't precipitate collapse, but protects against, reverses the
trends, allows human and ecological healing. Of course you can imagine
an eco-state in an authoritarian vein, because that's where China is
going. Rana Dasgupta surely sees it differently - I'm looking forward
to read that text - but I see China going toward a state that will
internalize earth system imperatives, and actually respond to the
climate crisis by producing self-driving electric cars, total
surveillance and geoengineering. Geoengineering is good - or at least,
it's inevitable - but authoritarianism isn't. How should the Western
countries and their "integrated peripheries" respond? What can
civil-society movements do about it? The answer is, we don't have a
clue. Shame on us. Mexico is collapsing, and white people in the US
think they can bring back the good old days.
As for the carbon tax that someone mentioned, I hear you, but it's too
little too late. It might have helped twenty years ago, if it hadn't
been just another neoliberal ploy for gaming the system. It can still
do some good, in a more serious form, but now we're on a timeline
that's going to require central coordination in addition to market
coordination. Unless we just want civilizational breakdown in the
megafires of the Pyrocene. Which is really coming into its own in
Colorado, by the way. I'm afraid it will put a real dent in the
tourist industry.
Green New Deal or bust. I'm not kidding when I talk about
eco-socialism. The question is how to get there.
Brian
sean
Sean Cubitt | He/Him
Professor of Screen Studies
School of Culture and Communication
W104 John Medley Building
University of Melbourne
Grattan Street
Victoria 3010
AUSTRALIA
scub...@unimelb.edu.au <mailto:scub...@unimelb.edu.au>
New Book: Anecdotal Evidence
https://global.oup.com/academic/product/anecdotal-evidence-9780190065720?lang=en&cc=au#
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 10:58:52 +0100
From: Felix Stalder <fe...@openflows.com <mailto:fe...@openflows.com>>
To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org <mailto:nettime-l@mail.kein.org>
Subject: Re: <nettime> Thoughts on coups
Message-ID: <2a74602d-d71a-2175-62ad-29b62760e...@openflows.com
<mailto:2a74602d-d71a-2175-62ad-29b62760e...@openflows.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
On 24.11.20 04:14, Brian Holmes wrote:
> Here's my two cents: Keynes aimed to save capitalism from itself. Double
> down on Keynes, unleash vast new creative energies on the basis of fiat
> money, and maybe, instead of sapping capital's foundations, we can push it
> over the top into ecosocialism.
There are probably two distinct political strategies here. And it
would
be interesting to work out their relation.
The first is move capitalism towards a different regime of
accumulation,
one based less on extractivism and consumerism but rather more on
renewable energy and "eco-system services" for repairing some of the
damage already done (I know, this term is conventionally used in a
different sense). A little bit of this we are already seeing, with the
EU's project to become a first climate neutral continent by 2050,
China
commitment by 2060 and new Biden admin making similar gestures. So
far,
actual effects, in terms of reducing the output of CO2 and and
ending/slowing down the loss of biological diversity, have not been
achieved. The big question is: is that too little too late, unable to
overcome very real system barriers to substantial change? Or can
this be
made into the beginning of a self-accelerating shift in the energy
regime of global civilization?
In the longer run, it's hard to imagine how capitalism can still be
capitalism without treating "nature" as an externality. So the
question
then becomes, what are the condition under which a 'greener
capitalism'
can be pushed into something else. In a way that is like an update of
the old Marxian idea that capitalism will produce productive forces on
which communism can be realized.
all the best. Felix
--
| ||||||||||||||||||
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<http://felix.openflows.com> |
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Brian Holmes <mailto:bhcontinentaldr...@gmail.com>
25. November 2020 um 00:29
On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 3:53 PM Sean Cubitt
<sean.cub...@unimelb.edu.au <mailto:sean.cub...@unimelb.edu.au>> wrote:
Nationalism builds on the other great crisis of our times,
migration. Post-nationalism means opening borders. Only that way
will the wealthy learn that removing the causes of migration -
war, pandemic, climate change, colonialism - is the only way to
survive (unless of course you're one of the billionaire class)
This is for certain, because the only alternative to opening borders -
and at the same time, engaging in co-development strategies that allow
some people, at least, to remain where they are - is war plain and
simple. Climate change is going to translate into burnt crops, forced
migration and war long before rising seas drive people out of lower
Manhattan. And state collapse induced by neoliberalism will do the
same. The current political economy is a vicious circle getting worse,
2020 has sure made that clear!
Any 21st century politics has to be formed by an alliance of the
excluded - human, ecological and - I would add, though it needs a
longer argument - technological
The question I have, is how to build an effective alliance of the
excluded, one that does not become a wrecking ball in its own right?
A lot of anarchism is now doing the work of neoliberalism, it's
heavily nihilistic. Autonomism itself was an uneasy fusion,
anarcho-communism, but the communist part was gradually reduced to a
kind of fantasy for intellectuals whose real politics were anarchist
by default - not their own default, but because every attempt to
construct a state-for-the-multitudes was foreclosed. In the absence of
a constructive principle you get alienated people looking to
accelerate the breakdown, on both right and left btw. The US is
rampant with that kind of accelerationist now - in fact, on the
extreme right they describe themselves with that exact word.
I think we need an eco-state. I mean a form of social coordination
that doesn't precipitate collapse, but protects against, reverses the
trends, allows human and ecological healing. Of course you can imagine
an eco-state in an authoritarian vein, because that's where China is
going. Rana Dasgupta surely sees it differently - I'm looking forward
to read that text - but I see China going toward a state that will
internalize earth system imperatives, and actually respond to the
climate crisis by producing self-driving electric cars, total
surveillance and geoengineering. Geoengineering is good - or at least,
it's inevitable - but authoritarianism isn't. How should the Western
countries and their "integrated peripheries" respond? What can
civil-society movements do about it? The answer is, we don't have a
clue. Shame on us. Mexico is collapsing, and white people in the US
think they can bring back the good old days.
As for the carbon tax that someone mentioned, I hear you, but it's too
little too late. It might have helped twenty years ago, if it hadn't
been just another neoliberal ploy for gaming the system. It can still
do some good, in a more serious form, but now we're on a timeline
that's going to require central coordination in addition to market
coordination. Unless we just want civilizational breakdown in the
megafires of the Pyrocene. Which is really coming into its own in
Colorado, by the way. I'm afraid it will put a real dent in the
tourist industry.
Green New Deal or bust. I'm not kidding when I talk about
eco-socialism. The question is how to get there.
Brian
sean
Sean Cubitt | He/Him
Professor of Screen Studies
School of Culture and Communication
W104 John Medley Building
University of Melbourne
Grattan Street
Victoria 3010
AUSTRALIA
scub...@unimelb.edu.au <mailto:scub...@unimelb.edu.au>
New Book: Anecdotal Evidence
https://global.oup.com/academic/product/anecdotal-evidence-9780190065720?lang=en&cc=au#
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 10:58:52 +0100
From: Felix Stalder <fe...@openflows.com <mailto:fe...@openflows.com>>
To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org <mailto:nettime-l@mail.kein.org>
Subject: Re: <nettime> Thoughts on coups
Message-ID: <2a74602d-d71a-2175-62ad-29b62760e...@openflows.com
<mailto:2a74602d-d71a-2175-62ad-29b62760e...@openflows.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
On 24.11.20 04:14, Brian Holmes wrote:
> Here's my two cents: Keynes aimed to save capitalism from itself. Double
> down on Keynes, unleash vast new creative energies on the basis of fiat
> money, and maybe, instead of sapping capital's foundations, we can push it
> over the top into ecosocialism.
There are probably two distinct political strategies here. And it
would
be interesting to work out their relation.
The first is move capitalism towards a different regime of
accumulation,
one based less on extractivism and consumerism but rather more on
renewable energy and "eco-system services" for repairing some of the
damage already done (I know, this term is conventionally used in a
different sense). A little bit of this we are already seeing, with the
EU's project to become a first climate neutral continent by 2050,
China
commitment by 2060 and new Biden admin making similar gestures. So
far,
actual effects, in terms of reducing the output of CO2 and and
ending/slowing down the loss of biological diversity, have not been
achieved. The big question is: is that too little too late, unable to
overcome very real system barriers to substantial change? Or can
this be
made into the beginning of a self-accelerating shift in the energy
regime of global civilization?
In the longer run, it's hard to imagine how capitalism can still be
capitalism without treating "nature" as an externality. So the
question
then becomes, what are the condition under which a 'greener
capitalism'
can be pushed into something else. In a way that is like an update of
the old Marxian idea that capitalism will produce productive forces on
which communism can be realized.
all the best. Felix
--
| ||||||||||||||||||
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Sean Cubitt <mailto:sean.cub...@unimelb.edu.au>
24. November 2020 um 22:52
Brian hits the nail on the head when he writes "paying out fiat money
to smooth the
jagged edges of the business cycle and thereby making proletarian
consumption into the very engine of capitalist growth."
As Felix adds, capital absolutely requires externalised nature - a
cost-free resource which can be mined and dumped into at no cost.
The model also applies now to the proletarian consumer: once merely
formally subsumed under capital, the new form of consumption has been
'really' subsumed: the form of consumption is fully integrated - all
consumption is also productive, generating data for further
exploitation. The mass production of debt is a crucial part of the
process: as is the mental health epidemic that it generates - this is
one way capital dumps its unwanted product, just as it dumps unwanted
heat into the atmosphere.
Waste is not marginal: it is integral to capital - and that includes
wasting excess humans, ie those that are not in the inner circle of
obscene wealth. The destruction of the state by capital under Brexit /
Trumpism is one strategy for ensuring a) the proletarianization of the
real subsumption of consumption under capital and b) the
externalisation/environmentalisation of the bio-mass and - in a way
that must terrify all post-autonomists - the general intellect.
Ex-communist polities (populist cronyism in its Putin/Xi variants)
still seem to prefer state capture; neo-con/neo-libs go for state
destruction: but the distinction is blurry (Georges Monbiot has a
suggestion why:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/24/brexit-capitalism
More depressing is the failure of the Left - while half believed the
EU was a flawed but viable system for controlling the worst excesses
of capital (which is why Murdoch and other gang members wanted it
wrecked), the other half, including Corbyn, saw it as a capitalist
conspiracy. Given that nationalism is such a hallmark of the rhetoric
of neo-populists, one obvious experiment to make is a post-nationalist
left - which instantly implies not rebuilding globalisation as it
existed prior to the GFC but one that builds on what now constitutes
the material infrastructure: populations, networks and ecologies.
Nationalism builds on the other great crisis of our times, migration.
Post-nationalism means opening borders. Only that way will the wealthy
learn that removing the causes of migration - war, pandemic, climate
change, colonialism - is the only way to survive (unless of course
you're one of the billionaire class)
Any 21st century politics has to be formed by an alliance of the
excluded - human, ecological and - I would add, though it needs a
longer argument - technological
sean
Sean Cubitt | He/Him
Professor of Screen Studies
School of Culture and Communication
W104 John Medley Building
University of Melbourne
Grattan Street
Victoria 3010
AUSTRALIA
scub...@unimelb.edu.au
New Book: Anecdotal Evidence
https://global.oup.com/academic/product/anecdotal-evidence-9780190065720?lang=en&cc=au#
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 10:58:52 +0100
From: Felix Stalder <fe...@openflows.com>
To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org
Subject: Re: <nettime> Thoughts on coups
Message-ID: <2a74602d-d71a-2175-62ad-29b62760e...@openflows.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
On 24.11.20 04:14, Brian Holmes wrote:
> Here's my two cents: Keynes aimed to save capitalism from itself. Double
> down on Keynes, unleash vast new creative energies on the basis of fiat
> money, and maybe, instead of sapping capital's foundations, we can push it
> over the top into ecosocialism.
There are probably two distinct political strategies here. And it would
be interesting to work out their relation.
The first is move capitalism towards a different regime of accumulation,
one based less on extractivism and consumerism but rather more on
renewable energy and "eco-system services" for repairing some of the
damage already done (I know, this term is conventionally used in a
different sense). A little bit of this we are already seeing, with the
EU's project to become a first climate neutral continent by 2050, China
commitment by 2060 and new Biden admin making similar gestures. So far,
actual effects, in terms of reducing the output of CO2 and and
ending/slowing down the loss of biological diversity, have not been
achieved. The big question is: is that too little too late, unable to
overcome very real system barriers to substantial change? Or can this be
made into the beginning of a self-accelerating shift in the energy
regime of global civilization?
In the longer run, it's hard to imagine how capitalism can still be
capitalism without treating "nature" as an externality. So the question
then becomes, what are the condition under which a 'greener capitalism'
can be pushed into something else. In a way that is like an update of
the old Marxian idea that capitalism will produce productive forces on
which communism can be realized.
all the best. Felix
--
| ||||||||||||||||||
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End of nettime-l Digest, Vol 158, Issue 30
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