On Sunday 18 August 2002 02:30 pm, you wrote:
> On Sunday 18 August 2002 13:42, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > On Sunday 18 August 2002 12:00 pm, you wrote:
> > >> On Friday 16 August 2002 10:21 pm, you wrote:
> > >> > On Friday 16 August 2002 07:14, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >> > > have you checked the systems at wallmart.com? no monitor (add
> > >> > > whatever you want) but the computers w/mandrake installed are a
> > >> > > hard price to beat. even as a reseller, with out "volume
> > >> > > discounts" I cannot beat the price.
> > >> >
> > >> > I feel you but I'm building this myself so I get to deduct the cost
> > >> > of labor from those machines. Plus the parts in those systems are
> > >> > garbage. They are good enough to run Linux, but they rarely outlive
> > >> > their warranties. Even when it only saves me $100 or so, I like
> > >> > building it myself to know it was done right and with high quality
> > >> > parts. Peace.
> > >> >
> > >> > Isaac
> > >>
> > >> if all you save is 100.00, then you (may should) have some questions
> > >> as to the quality of what you get. It does not hurt me at all to fess
> > >> to that... how much can you charge in labor to put together pieces
> > >> that could be purchased (assembled and configured) for less than you
> > >> can purchase the pieces individuly?
> > >>
> > >> I cann't seem to find what exact MObo and brand of Harddrive or Mem.
> > >> theese are "suposed to have, so I am wondering about where you get
> > >> your evidence about "the parts in those systems are garbage." and if
> > >> you think you can save a buck building it yourself, without a good
> > >> volume discount, I bet we would all like to see how you do that.
> >
> > I went to Mwave.com and priced out (roughly) what I think the Walmart.com
> > system would cost in parts (I think Mwave is quality with reasonable (if
> > not the best) prices)
> >
> > WallMart sytem Mwave
>Price
> > AMD Duron 1.3 GHz processor 64.00
> > 200 MHz frontside bus MoBo
> > 128 MB SDRAM, expandable to 1GB 30.00
> > 40 GB Ultra ATA-100 hard drive, 5400 rpm 80.00
> > (total accessible capacity varies depending on operating environment)
> > 52x CD-ROM drive 40.00
> > 3.5-inch floppy disk drive 15.00
> > Integrated 10/100 Ethernet connection Mobo
> > PCI 56 Kbps Hardware modem 35.00
> > Integrated Trident Blade 2-D/3-D graphics Mobo
> > Up to 8 MB shared video memory Mobo
> > Integrated 3-D enhanced sound Mobo
> > Micro ATX Tower Case (7.06" W x 14.7" D x 13.8" H) 35.00
> > Total drive bays: two 5.25-inch external, two 3.5-inch external and
> > one Case 3.5-inch internal
> > Available drive bays: 5.25-inch external and 3.5-inch external,
> > 3.5-inch Case internal
> > Total slots: 3 PCI Mobo
> > Available slots: 2 PCI Mobo
> > High-speed serial port Mobo
> > Parallel port Mobo
> > 2 USB ports Mobo
> > Game port Mobo
> > 104-key keyboard 10.00
> > 2-button mouse w/wheel 10.00
> > Audio port (line-in, line-out, mic-in) Mobo
> > Stereo speakers 15.00
> > Mobo 75.00
> >
> > now, unless I added something twice, or my numbers are way wrong (and I
> > ain't sure about a PCI hardware modem for 35.00, I did not see that and
> > really did not look, might be a few bucks more, but heck you might decide
> > to use an HSP modem for 35.00, 80.00 bucks is the price for the second
> > modem you will use <grin>), without paying for anyone's time or shipping
> > of individual parts, it seems to work out to $ 394.00, without really
> > good parts, like an antec case or fancy (read clean) powersupply.
> > (speaking of lasting past the warrenty) same machine, built configured
> > and ready for yo to resell, (hint) 428.00. hmmmmm how much are you
> > thinking of making?
>
> I think I might have expressed myself wrong-- I'm not charging anyone for
> labor. I'm saying that I am able to buy more/better parts for the same
> price because I am only paying for parts whereas one who purchases from a
> store is really paying for parts + labor. Furthermore, I only use high
> quality parts. I don't care if I'm building a $600 glorified word
> processor, I don't use the junk that Wal-Mart, Best Buy, etc. slap in their
> computers. They use name brand processors and video cards and keyboards and
> mouses (mice?), but beyond that it's pretty random.
>
> The scariest things are mobos and memory. If you're buying AMD, there is
> one and only one motherboard that it safe to use-- the ECS K7S5A (there are
> three safe versions of it, but I consider it all one board). VIA chipsets
> aren't even worth the price you could fetch melting them down and selling
> them as scrap metal. With a fast processor you absolutely have to have ECC
> memory, and DDR may be slower than the P4's Rambus, but it's much more
> stable under pressure. I'm not trying to be a hardware elitist or anything,
> I understand and respect people who either save themselves money by using
> generic or second / third-tier parts but it's just not my style. Same with
> overclockers, I know they have to use some pretty trashy hardware to get
> what they want, but it's even more unstable overclocked than it is at
> normal speed-- and that's saying a lot.
>
> The system you're talking about cuts some pretty silly corners. Why buy a
> CD-ROM when equal or better DVD-ROMS are available for $5/$6 more? Who
> would ever use a 5400 RPM hard drive, except on a $500/$600 entry level
> system? Onboard graphics with an AMD processor? I'm really curious what
> board you're using, because I didn't see it mentioned. It's obviously not
> the ECS, and unless there has been a revolution in AMD-compatible
> motherboards that I didn't hear about, I'd steer clear of it. You're
> talking about 128 MB of RAM, I need 512.
>
> You're talking about stuffing a 1.3 GHz processor inside a MicroATX case,
> and an AMD one at that (hope the fan in your case has air conditioning)!
> Speaking of which, the geniuses that put this together at Wal Mart chose to
> pay $12 more for the 1.3 GHz processor (because it's the only thing
> non-geeks know about when they read ads in the paper) instead of paying
> $20-$25 more for a 7200 RPM hard drive or even $4 more for a DVD-ROM. Hell,
> for $20-$25 dollars you could upgrade from those garbage monitors that come
> in store-bought systems to a low-end 17" that would allow you to use some
> decent resolutions. Besides, who would EVER make the expense of purchasing
> a 1.3 GHz processor and then go and stick 128 MB of RAM in it? A system
> would run twice as fast with a simple 1.0 GHz and 256 MB.
>
> This whole thing is a very unfair comparison. You're trying to compare a
> system at Wal Mart that uses not only generic and onboard EVERYTHING, but
> completely different parts. I'm talking 512 MB, you're talking 128, I'm
> using a 7200 RPM name brand hard drive, you're touting a 54 generic. I
> mean, I am talking about a $150 4.1 digital audio system with an excellent
> sound card, and you're trying to compare it to some $15 speakers and
> onboard audio! Even if I used junk generic parts at the speeds and sizes I
> am talking about, I would only trim around 10% of the cost. And to what
> end? So that my computer will fall apart two years from now like the ones
> all my friends own? I just don't get the logic of buying crappy hardware,
> it never pays off in the long run.
>
> You're also talking about doing the whole thing through Wal-Mart. Let me
> get this right-- you run Linux because Bill Gates is the White Devil, but
> you go and buy your box from Wal-Mart? WAL-MART?! Why don't you just wait a
> few years and order all your Linux compatible hardware online from
> microsoft.com? I mean, come on... Wal Mart? How revolutionary is that?
> Where else can you get open source software and senior citizens making
> minimum wage to pay their prescription drug bills, all under the same roof?
> You fight the power, brother.
>
> Maybe I'm a little baised becuase WalMart is currently lobbying to be able
> to destroy a local marsh / Native American burial ground to put up a new
> supercenter in my hometown (the courts overturned the city's right to zone
> it as a non-commercial, protected wetland area and the Department of
> Environmental Protection is bending over for them now too), but I wouldn't
> even buy the hunk of junk you're talking about from a nice local business
> operating out of the downtown. All anti-WalMart politics aside, you're
> talking about a bunch of worthless hardware that's not even the same KIND
> of hardware I'm talking about. If you want to run computers like that, go
> right ahead, but I'd never, EVER consider sacrificing stability for price
> even in the most inexpensive entry-level $600 system.
>
> </rant>,
> Isaac
Man, I am sorry to hear that in your part of the Country Wally mart was able
to "trump" local desires, here (Union County, North Carolina) we had a
WalMart that even broke ground for the building, and a local judge said
"no-way- Jose" that the zoning called for a single store, and a Wallmart is
so big, it has to be counted as a Mulit-store. and they stopped the project,
took away the equipment, and has a sign up, for sale for a single store or
farm.
I did not pick exact prices, nor did I pic the top or bottom of the line
machine, just one to compare, and don't even know what Walmart really uses,
these prices are just guesses, so 10.00 on any part is just my own guess as
to what it would cost. I build my own systems (and so do a bunch of folks)
because I like to, and I like to know what is "under the hood" but if price
is the motivation, for resale, then I say consider the labor involved in your
price structure, is all. I try not to consider all developement "bad" and try
to co-exist with developments that seem deemed to work due to the massive
scale of human life on the planet. I don't paticularly like WallyMart either,
but I don't select one mega company over another, I try and select which
items are best for me. _I_ do not run a computer from Micro-tel, but for an
entry-level word-processor-e-mail-webbrowser,,,,
When I was about 10 (1965) years old, my father ran a company that sold beef
to McDonald's all over the US. At a Christmas party, Ray Kroc was there, and
about 12 pm he was a little drunk, and sitting in a corner near the Table
(waiting for someone to come out of the restroom as I recall) and I got to
ask him "why make the "bigMac" which was kinda new. his answer suprised me,
since it was not anything you might expect this "father of franchise" to
answer. Instead, he said he was concerned that the fast life of folks did not
allow them a chance to get enough fruit of vegitable in their diet, and this
was a way to improve the amount of food other than beef and bread in their
diet. I don't eat McDonald's either, but at least I always try and remember
that a "mega-company" may not have bad intentions, but may have someone at
the helm who may not see the "big-Picture" the same as I do. My Mother was a
"Proof Reader" with a masters in english. when Computers came along, she was
out of a job she loved and had worked hard at for years, But I don't blame
Word Perfect Corp.
The folks that could not get a job at "Pop's Hardware" because they were not
related to "Pop" may not feel as bad about getting a job at walmart as you do
about a walmart being built. not all change is good, but not all change is
bad, either.
Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
