On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 08:25:36PM -0500, gk wrote: > On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 18:47:01 -0500, Greg Donald <gdon...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >I personally could type those commands with ease, I just don't want to > >anymore. I'm sick of fixing Linux when it breaks. At what point do I > >get to quit having to be a Linux sys admin just to be a happy Linux > >user?
Linux breaks? The only time I recall an issue where CentOS
actually *broke* in the past few years was when a bad SELinux
policy update was pushed from RH that stomped a specific postfix
operation. Other than that my systems just keep on chugging.
Now, to be completely fair...
I don't run a classical Linux "desktop" environment: i.e. no
X11 on any of my boxes. My Linux "desktop" consists of virtual
consoles and screen sessions and I am perfectly content with it
as such and my graphical stuff running on XP. 14 Linux physical
and virtual machines and 3 XP desktops which includes a laptop -
I can live with those numbers :)
> the "geek squad" $300 to get your machine running. One of the MAJOR reasons
> windows added the POWER shell is because so many technicians where
> bitching about
> not being able to fine tune a windows install with the GUI. They finally
> listened.
Then, to be perfectly frank, those same technicians needs to
read up on what they are doing. Virtually every aspect of
windows administrative tasks have been able to be completed from
a cmd session since W2K, this includes being able to script
everything.
> Same holds true in Linux, and I've been around computers since the 80s.
What holds true in Linux? I think I'm missing something here.
> The other thing I've found is
> that Linux is on more hardware everyday. People don't do their research on
> compatability
> with what they are running and get all frustrated at those stupid Linux
> devs. How dare them.
Indeed this is true. However the entitlement mentality of today
dictates that someone expects everything to either just work or
be no more than a driver disk away from working. And to be
quite honest it really shouldn't be any more difficult than
that.
> Linux owes no one a thing, as does any person on this board. We do this
> out of believing in
> Freedom from IP/DRM, a sense of community.
That is not entirely true. You are using "Linux" in the
broadest sense possible and that's not accurate. There are
commercial Linux offerings that do indeed owe their customers
something and that's lifetime support over the lifetime of the
release.
> I am a perfectly happy Linux user. In fact it is much easier to install
> Linux
> on a desktop than it is a laptop. Now I know people are going to get their
Yep, no argument there. And the biggest hurdle in this arena is
wireless support.
> shorts in a wad
> with what I'll say next. I personally believe Canonical has done the
> greatest
> damage to Linux by trying to promote itself as the beginners mojo with a
> flowery bed of
> roses. Canonical is NOT a beginners distro, not even close. Ya they
Canonical has indeed done a huge amount of damage, but not for
the reasons you list. The damage is from Canonical being among
the biggest bunch of leeches in existence. The number of
patches they've dumped back to the kernel tree is astoundingly
small in comparison with anyone else, including such as Novell/
SuSE who have always been fairly selfish in the grand scheme of
things. There are, of course, other issues at play, but frankly
their leechdom is at the top of the list. Of course, pushing a
release out the door with the number of open and show-stopping
bugs as Canonical does on a regular basis doesn't help.
> "attracted" quite a few Debian devs
> and started paying them. They hack around on what they freeze and release.
> The only thing is SID and experimental are NOT complete distros in and of
> themselves
> they are pre-Alpha and Alpha software. Debian itself doesn't support you
> if you use
> those two repos. They tell you if you break it. You get to keep both
> halves. So why
> would I promote such applications as that to a newbee. I wouldn't.
Debian != Ubuntu, no matter how closely related they may be.
> Persaonlly if I have the time
> and if I am in the local area and depending how I feel I could put Arch on
> or Sabayon which
I've never played with Sabayon but I've heard some good things
about it. PCLinuxOS is another that might be useful for a new
Linux user; not everything need be free.
> is a VERY complete distro. I didn't have any hiccups for the few months I
> used it on
> my eee's. They actually discourage "compiling" and the use of the command
> line. Thing is
> everything works. I had one laptop with a Broadcom card that fired up
> right out of the box.
As it should be. Compiling is getting less and less mainstream
with the plethora of package-managed distributions to choose
from.
> Another thing I find lacking is people haven't defined in their own minds
> what they really want to
> accomplish with their boxen. I'd say 90% want just an appliance, which all
> OS's are moving to
> hence the ARM architecture. I think with Google putting out their OS,
> HTML5 -- which Apple is in the lead
> with for production/research, old M$ is going to have to follow the crowd.
I'll take this bet. I think you misunderstand the base of users
these days. Your "90%" figure should read "90% want just a
gaming box." Nor will ARM ever approach the install base of
Intel/AMD boxen; the ARM architecture is fine for dedicated/
discrete/embedded devices but it's not a general purpose
chipset.
And m$ doesn't follow any ones lead. Ever. They've *always*
gone their own way and I foresee no change in this for the
future.
> With a cloud you never have to install an
> OS, a program or save your data locally. It's all out there in never never
> land. I won't go any further
> there.
And no liability for the integrity of that data lies with
anyone. Cloud computing is proving to be a bust for the way
it was initially envisioned, at least by today's definition of
"the cloud". There is a *long* way to go before "the cloud"
is truly effective for the average user, if ever.
John
--
Although CREW has been unable to uncover the demographic makeup of [these
companies], it seems safe to assume the vast majority of their employees
are not pregnant women, infants and children, young adults up to 24 years
old, and healthcare workers.
-- Melanie Sloan of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington,
after more than a dozen companies were given the vaccines, including
Citigroup, Goldman Sachs and JPMorgan Chase, 5 November 2009
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