Mr. Dionne,
Do you actually believe everything that you've just written?
Especially these sections:
Many times details of the politics behind situations are kept quiet, but
overall I think we are given the straight scoop by government and the media.
It is always good to question what we are told, and our press does that very
well.
I adamantly disagree that we are the bad cop on the beat. Many look upon
the US badly because of our status in the world. We are active and support
American Interests around the world to protect ourselves, as well as foster
world peace and stability. Using the phrase "under the yoke of the US" is
propaganda. We have no national purpose of holding other nations down for
powers sake. There is no yoke of the US.
Sir, with all due respect, you are either sheltered from life itself and
don't get out much. Or you're too young to be involved in a discussion like
this. But you're definitely uninformed if you dismiss all of Mr. Buff's
comments as "X-file-ish."
Mr. Dionne, do you why the US bombed Japan during WWII? Sir, do you know
the real reason we went to the defense of Kuwait?
I am not going to get into a debate with you about these things. A simple
yes or no will suffice with me. As I respectfully do not place much
credence in an Americans' opinion (yours), who appears to be blinded with
'love of his country.'
Jesse E. Gardner, MCP
P.O. Box 11431
Columbia, SC 29211
(803)216-0119
(803)216-0921 fax
(803)361-4361 cell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Dionne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:47 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: A few thoughts on today's events
Kurt,
US foreign policy over time fluctuates due to the differing opinions of the
political party who happens to be in power and to some degree of public
opinion. Your characterization of events in the past are almost
"X-File-ish." Sure US policy has not always been correct, we make mistakes
like every other country. Fighting the Soviet Union we had to sometimes
choose stability over more democratic opposition. Your comments imply some
sort of conspiracy in hiding or coloring historical events like JFK, etc.
Many times details of the politics behind situations are kept quiet, but
overall I think we are given the straight scoop by government and the media.
It is always good to question what we are told, and our press does that very
well.
We support Israel because it is the right thing to do. But, we also support
a Palestinian state. It is up to them to come to terms however. In the
modern world the US has to be engaged in the world or pay the consequences.
This means making decisions on what governments to support, taking or not
taking military action, etc. In general the US government and it's people
(us) support and respect the world's diversity. We may preach, but we do
not conquer.
I adamantly disagree that we are the bad cop on the beat. Many look upon
the US badly because of our status in the world. We are active and support
American Interests around the world to protect ourselves, as well as foster
world peace and stability. Using the phrase "under the yoke of the US" is
propaganda. We have no national purpose of holding other nations down for
powers sake. There is no yoke of the US.
I know there are points of view at odds with the United States, but we have
to stand up for our interests and principles. The bottom line is we cannot
please everyone, but we have to make the effort to live with everyone in the
world. Being strong and outspoken in the world, is enough of a cause for
other nations and peoples to be resentful of the US. The major cause of
today's events is the clash of Western and Islamic culture. There should be
room enough for all of us. But it is not the United States who is turn this
into an "us against them" argument. In fact the political use of "Jihad"
really does a great disservice to Islam.
What it comes down to is we must fight for freedom, even if it appears we
are the bully of the world. Just imagine the current government of China
were in charge, and see who would complain than.
Mahalo
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: Kurt Buff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 3:05 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: A few thoughts on today's events
First:
Thanks to those outside of the US who have expressed concern and support. It
is much appreciated. I don't live anywhere near NYC, but as a US citizen and
a simple human being I am distraught by these events, and wish the best for
those who've been affected.
As usual, people across America have mostly responded by trying to comfort
and care for those who have been directly affected by the attack. It's not
for nothing that citizens of the US are known as the most generous in the
world, and the most practical.
Erik Goldoff's forwarded post from his IT director is spot on, and also much
appreciated.
Second:
It does not matter, in some senses, who did this. What matters is why it
happened. While steps do need to be taken to detect and punish the
perpetrators, this problem will not fade simply because the US will have
(probably) killed whoever did this. In many places across the world, the US
is hated, and with reason. The US government has since World War II been
instrumental in destabilizing many democratically elected regimes, and has
sided with tyrants and dictators, so long as they supported US foreign
policy, or were willing to be puppets. The main target for many years was
Communism, although after the Berlin wall fell the focus changed, and has
continued to change, to whatever enemy of the day is fixated upon.
Cuba, Iraq, Iran, Syria, North Korea, Afghanistan, Osama bin Laden, PFLP,
DFLP, etc., etc., etc. are all targets now, but whether now or in the past,
the US government has pursued its ends with means that are not in keeping
with the stated values that most Americans cherish and profess to believe.
American foreign policy has tried to direct events and attitudes across the
world, but it has often not had a coherent aim, usually trying simply to
keep a lid on various situations, or trying to reward those who have toed
our line. Its overseas agenda has been chaotic, perverse and inexplicable.
We will suffer more for it.
The easiest example is right now the most relevant - Israel and the
Palestinians.
I won't try to say who is right or wrong in that conflict, but suffice it to
say there is blame enough for both sides, and the US government has been
neck-deep in it. Worse, the US government has sent conflicting signals since
the beginning.
It's overly simplistic to say that we are hated because we have tried to be
the world's policeman. If we were only that, we would have far fewer
problems. The problem is that we are the corrupt cop on the world beat;
sometimes meddling where we shouldn't, sometimes turning a blind eye where
we shouldn't, often picking on the wrong party in a conflict, and in general
being ham-handed and incompetent in the patrolling of our self-appointed
rounds and the execution of our self-appointed duties.
I'll make one last point here, which has been stated elsewhere - I don't
believe that you can find a large terrorist attack anywhere that wasn't
sparked by some long-standing pattern of government interference where it
wasn't wanted and wasn't justified. If the US government hadn't elected
itself the world's policeman, this wouldn't have happened. Still on point,
if the US government hadn't been such a corrupt cop, this probably wouldn't
have happened, although it possibly might still have. That's harder to
discern. Whether or not we should be the world's policeman is a separate
matter, but if we must be, we should be a good cop, not a bad cop.
Third:
The fallout from this outside of realm of the immediate (i.e., our
military/political response to the actual attack) is going to take a long
time to see. Economically speaking, the WTC housed some really influential
firms, and major offices for many more. People are worrying about gas
prices, among other things. You should be aware that fluctuations in
commodity prices will fluctuate for a while, and that gold and oil prices
will rise for a while - mainly because they are real stores of value, and
are, er, liquid assets.
Longer term, there may be flight of capital from the US because of loss of
confidence in the security of the country. Or not. There may be serious
erosion of civil liberties. Or not. I'd bet on the former in each case, but
I hope for the latter. However, I believe that that the longer-term effects
will be overcome, as long as the US government doesn't pass too many new
laws.
Finally:
I'll not try to make any exhortations on actions anyone should take, or what
they should believe. I'll leave that to others, who perhaps will be better
received than I think I will be for posting this message. What I wish to
impart here is some perspective, and some context. If you wish to flame me,
please think again. I don't rile, and will simply delete any flames. If you
wish to discuss my thoughts, do so, either here or privately. I can't say
how much I'll be interested in talking about this, since I'm still trying to
come to terms with this both emotionally and intellectually. Still, I'd like
to hear what others have to say.
As Bette Davis' character said in All About Eve - "Fasten your seatbelts,
we're in for a bumpy ride."
Kurt
http://www.sunbelt-software.com/ntsysadmin_list_charter.htm
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