Kim, with all due respect (keep in mind, I said with all due respect, so I can say anything now), I think you're missing the bigger issue.
Help and guidance are often offered, and then are rebuffed for slight reasons, or due to the nature of the organization. Alternatives are suggested about doing the tasks he undertakes a different way. It's an element of unflexibility. If someone asks for help and yet doesn't take what is offered what I find it hard to blame those offering help time and again only to see advice essentially ignored. Then there's the trivial nature of the questions received. I'm sure I ask trivial questions quite often. However, the first place I ask them is within myself. And then I go to the oracle. Or I'll draft an email and ruminate on it, think about how the question I'm asking is going to be received. If there's something I'm leaving out. Quite often at this stage I realize I've forgotten to examine something in detail, and 9 times out of 10 I've resolved my own issue. Many of us are happy to help and many of us are interested in developing information professionals. The person on the other end has to be willing to accept help, accept criticism (which is really hard to do, I'll admit it) when necessary and then be able to process that information and solve the job at hand. Quite frankly, in this instance, the problem we were asked to solve was how to disable an application/service which is left running in order to be convenient to the admin. There's a reason they call it work. Sometimes we can automate and ease our tasks. Sometimes we can't. And sometimes we do things that make our lives more difficult. Hopefully those times are rare and hopefully when we do something that does make our life more difficult there is a community that is (still!!!!!) willing to say it. We may not say it nicely all the time, but that is more a function of the individual than the group. And in this instance, I think Ed Crowley is authoritative. "There are seldom good technological solutions to behavioral problems." On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 3:11 PM, Kim Longenbaugh <[email protected]>wrote: > you were fortunate to have mentors, then. not all of us are that > fortunate. maybe you should take John under your wing and teach him the > right way to do things. > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Gary Slinger [[email protected]] > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 27, 2011 2:06 PM > > *To:* NT System Admin Issues > *Subject:* Re: Vipre console hangs server on reboot > > No; I would never have been allowed to post the kind of questions he > posts at the start of my career. > > Although, to be fair, that would have involved questions pertaining to the > best way to carry a stack of System/36 reel-to-reel tapes from the data > center to the backup location - should I stack more above the elbow, or > below, and is the loss risk of carrying a whole batch at once worth it? > > That sort of thing... > > At the start of my career, I was taught to research. And, when necessary, > to seek help, by presenting a documented case indicating what the issue was, > what had been attempted, what had been eliminated or what was suspected, and > to indicate the specific areas that I needed detailed help in. > > Not, for instance, this bunch of garbage. > > On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 2:56 PM, Kim Longenbaugh <[email protected] > > wrote: > >> any chance that J is you at the start of your career? maybe he's just >> now learning his lessons... >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* William Robbins [[email protected]] >> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:04 PM >> *To:* NT System Admin Issues >> *Subject:* Re: Vipre console hangs server on reboot >> >> Well "anything" covers a lot of ground Gary, and I don't think that's >> fair. >> >> - WJR >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 12:50, Gary Slinger <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> **You prove your own point. He's not a 'professional' anything. >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From: *William Robbins <[email protected]> >>> *Date: *Wed, 27 Jul 2011 12:36:44 -0500 >>> *To: *NT System Admin Issues<[email protected]> >>> *ReplyTo: *"NT System Admin Issues" < >>> [email protected]> >>> *Subject: *Re: Vipre console hangs server on reboot >>> >>> I would submit that you should, as an "IT professional" have an idea of >>> costs because you may be asked by "management" to provide that information >>> for budgetary planning... >>> >>> Or you could submit a blind post here and hope someone does your research >>> for you...again. >>> >>> - WJR >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 12:21, John Aldrich < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Honestly, I have not looked at the cost of a new desktop system lately >>>> as I >>>> know that management is not going to approve the purchase of one. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: William Robbins [mailto:[email protected]] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 11:46 AM >>>> To: NT System Admin Issues >>>> Subject: Re: Vipre console hangs server on reboot >>>> >>>> What was supposed to be shocking exactly? >>>> >>>> That you have no idea about hardware costs, or that you think I wouldn't >>>> have a spare $2500? >>>> >>>> - WJR >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 08:33, John Aldrich < >>>> [email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> Actually, I have no idea what a new, fully-loaded 64-bit system will >>>> cost. I >>>> haven't actually priced one. I was just making up a number for shock >>>> value. >>>> :D >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: William Robbins [mailto:[email protected]] >>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 5:34 PM >>>> To: NT System Admin Issues >>>> Subject: Re: Vipre console hangs server on reboot >>>> Same here. But we don't shop for Alienware PC's to do our "work." >>>> >>>> - WJR >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 16:28, Don Ely <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> $2500?!?!?!?! Funny, my company didn't pay more than $1000 for my quad >>>> core >>>> with 8GB of RAM.... >>>> On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Stefan Jafs <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> Yeah, I guess the carpet business is flat on the floor in this economy. >>>> On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 4:08 PM, John Aldrich < >>>> [email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> Gee... you got an extra $2500+ or so for all new hardware and software? >>>> I >>>> mean, I'd love to have a nice new 64-bit Windows 7 machine with Office >>>> 2010 >>>> and all that stuff...but unfortunately, I don't have that. I've got a >>>> 3-year-old Optiplex running XP Pro 32-bit. And with the way the economy >>>> is >>>> going lately, I don't see me getting an upgraded desktop machine any >>>> time >>>> soon. >>>> >>>> From: William Robbins [mailto:[email protected]] >>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 3:41 PM >>>> >>>> To: NT System Admin Issues >>>> Subject: Re: Vipre console hangs server on reboot >>>> Just a thought...perhaps you need a new workstation if those things >>>> you've >>>> listed tax it's resources to the point that you can't do your job >>>> appropriately. >>>> >>>> But then, given your posts regarding this "problem" today I doubt you'll >>>> understand anything I have to say either. But I feel bad for Jonathan >>>> whose >>>> head seems to be swelling. >>>> >>>> He's been walking around paraphrasing "Tombstone" of all things... >>>> >>>> - WJR >>>> On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 14:32, John Aldrich < >>>> [email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> I *AM* running multiple apps at once. Microsoft LookOut!...err... >>>> Outlook is >>>> a bit of a resource hog. My AS/400 terminal client is running now, I >>>> have a >>>> VNC session going, I have Chrome running multiple tabs... so, yeah... my >>>> system isn't just sitting here doing nothing. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 2:12 PM >>>> To: NT System Admin Issues >>>> Subject: Re: Vipre console hangs server on reboot >>>> This I don't understand, running of management tools on (sometimes >>>> dedicated) servers. Why not go the whole hog and run your email and >>>> internet >>>> browsing on a server too? If you were using a thin client or a >>>> drastically >>>> underpowered PC, then this would make sense, but not if you have a >>>> decent >>>> workstation. >>>> >>>> I agree that running lots of consoles creates a headache due to startup >>>> time >>>> and occasionally on a resource basis, so what we try to do is integrate >>>> as >>>> much stuff as possible into OpsManager, so we don't need to stare at a >>>> load >>>> of consoles. Then I can only open consoles as I need to work on them. >>>> But if >>>> your PC can't handle running seven or eight applications including a few >>>> management consoles, or if you worry because your machine uses lots of >>>> its >>>> memory (even though it is there to be used), then you have a few issues >>>> that >>>> need to be resolved. >>>> >>>> Just my 2 penneth worth, ymmv >>>> Sent from my POS BlackBerry wireless device, which may wipe itself at >>>> any >>>> moment >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: Steve Ens <[email protected]> >>>> Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 13:04:20 -0500 >>>> To: NT System Admin Issues<[email protected]> >>>> ReplyTo: "NT System Admin Issues" < >>>> [email protected]> >>>> Subject: Re: Vipre console hangs server on reboot >>>> Better on a workstation than on a server is all I can say. >>>> On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 12:29 PM, John Aldrich >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> Well, yeah... but I don't choose to load down my workstation with a >>>> whole >>>> bunch of management consoles and associated crap. :D >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Roger Wright [mailto:[email protected]] >>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 1:23 PM >>>> To: NT System Admin Issues >>>> Subject: Re: Vipre console hangs server on reboot >>>> Agreed. I can run the VIPRE console on the server but choose to do it >>>> from >>>> my desktop machine instead. It's rarely open on the server. >>>> >>>> >>>> Roger Wright >>>> ___ >>>> Dr. Seuss is my favorite rapper! Cat - Hat... sheer genius! >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Jonathan Link <[email protected] >>>> > >>>> wrote: >>>> Why on earth have the console running all the time, then? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 1:14 PM, John Aldrich < >>>> [email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> Nope... it's not the Vipre server that's the problem, it's the console. >>>> Guess I'll just have to live with manually shutting down the console if >>>> I >>>> want to reboot the server. It's not that big a deal now that I've >>>> decided >>>> not to automatically reboot the server weekly. >>>> >>>> From: Kim Longenbaugh [mailto:[email protected]] >>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 12:59 PM >>>> To: NT System Admin Issues >>>> Subject: RE: Vipre console hangs server on reboot >>>> >>>> how about a "net stop <vipre services>". I can't test right now, but >>>> that >>>> seems like it would stop the console too. there's two key vipre >>>> services, >>>> by the way. If you can "net stop", there's no reason to taskkill >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: Andrew S. Baker [[email protected]] >>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 11:20 AM >>>> To: NT System Admin Issues >>>> Subject: Re: Vipre console hangs server on reboot >>>> Well, if they (app vendor) offer no programmatic way to shut the console >>>> down, and they (app vendor) are suggesting that you kill the task, then >>>> your >>>> only other alternative will be an application that programmatically >>>> manages >>>> the dialog boxes. This approach will likely be complicated by the >>>> state of >>>> the server (e.g. workstation locked). >>>> >>>> Process killing is rarely fraught with peril... >>>> ASB >>>> http://about.me/Andrew.S.Baker >>>> Harnessing the Advantages of Technology for the SMB market… >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 11:44 AM, John Aldrich >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> I suppose there’s no real reason to reboot the server on a scheduled >>>> basis… >>>> THAT server has never had any real issues… As for not running the >>>> Console >>>> remotely, I really don’t wish to install it on another machine as it’s a >>>> bit >>>> of a resource hog. As far as taskkill, I just don’t like killing off a >>>> process “just because”, and that’s what that seems like to me. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:[email protected]] >>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 11:25 AM >>>> >>>> To: NT System Admin Issues >>>> Subject: Re: Vipre console hangs server on reboot >>>> >>>> A - Why are you rebooting the server on a scheduled basis? >>>> >>>> >>>> B - Why are you not running the Vipre console remotely? >>>> >>>> C - What's wrong with Taskkill (assuming you don't wish to address the >>>> previous two issues)? >>>> ASB >>>> http://about.me/Andrew.S.Baker >>>> Harnessing the Advantages of Technology for the SMB market… >>>> On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 11:14 AM, John Aldrich >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> I have to manually shut down Vipre Enterprise Console if I want the >>>> server >>>> to come up on a scheduled reboot, otherwise it hangs the server and I >>>> have >>>> to manually power-cycle the server to get it to work. I checked with >>>> Sunbelt >>>> support and they said there is no way to *programmatically* close the >>>> console when I reboot the server (scheduled task, so it's >>>> non-interactive.) >>>> They suggested using Microsoft's TaskKill. Anyone got any better >>>> suggestions? Server is Windows 2003R2 standard. >>>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >>>> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >>>> >>>> --- >>>> To manage subscriptions click here: >>>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >>>> or send an email to [email protected] >>>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >>>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >>>> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >>>> >>>> --- >>>> To manage subscriptions click here: >>>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >>>> or send an email to [email protected] >>>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >>>> >>>> >>>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >>>> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >>>> >>>> --- >>>> To manage subscriptions click here: >>>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >>>> or send an email to [email protected] >>>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >>>> >>>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >>>> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >>>> >>>> --- >>>> To manage subscriptions click here: >>>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >>>> or send an email to [email protected] >>>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >>>> >>>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >>>> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >>>> >>>> --- >>>> To manage subscriptions click here: >>>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >>>> or send an email to [email protected] >>>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >>>> >>>> >>>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >>>> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >>>> >>>> --- >>>> To manage subscriptions click here: >>>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >>>> or send an email to [email protected] >>>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >>>> >>>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >>>> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >>>> >>>> --- >>>> To manage subscriptions click here: >>>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >>>> or send an email to [email protected] >>>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >>>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >>>> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >>>> >>>> --- >>>> To manage subscriptions click here: >>>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >>>> or send an email to [email protected] >>>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >>>> >>>> >>>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >>>> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >>>> >>>> --- >>>> To manage subscriptions click here: >>>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >>>> or send an email to [email protected] >>>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >>>> >>>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >>>> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >>>> >>>> --- >>>> To manage subscriptions click here: >>>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >>>> or send an email to [email protected] >>>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >>>> >>>> >>>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >>>> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >>>> >>>> --- >>>> To manage subscriptions click here: >>>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >>>> or send an email to [email protected] >>>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Stefan Jafs >>>> >>>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >>>> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >>>> >>>> --- >>>> To manage subscriptions click here: >>>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >>>> or send an email to [email protected] >>>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >>>> >>>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >>>> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >>>> >>>> --- >>>> To manage subscriptions click here: >>>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >>>> or send an email to [email protected] >>>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >>>> >>>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >>>> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >>>> >>>> --- >>>> To manage subscriptions click here: >>>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >>>> or send an email to [email protected] >>>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >>>> >>>> >>>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >>>> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >>>> >>>> --- >>>> To manage subscriptions click here: >>>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >>>> or send an email to [email protected] >>>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >>>> >>>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >>>> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >>>> >>>> --- >>>> To manage subscriptions click here: >>>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >>>> or send an email to [email protected] >>>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >>>> >>>> >>>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >>>> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >>>> >>>> --- >>>> To manage subscriptions click here: >>>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >>>> or send an email to [email protected] >>>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >>>> >>>> >>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >>> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >>> >>> --- >>> To manage subscriptions click here: >>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >>> or send an email to [email protected] >>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >>> >>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >>> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >>> >>> --- >>> To manage subscriptions click here: >>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >>> or send an email to [email protected] >>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >>> >> >> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >> >> --- >> To manage subscriptions click here: >> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >> or send an email to [email protected] >> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >> >> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >> >> --- >> To manage subscriptions click here: >> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >> or send an email to [email protected] >> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >> > > > > -- > Gary K. Slinger > Voice: 727-475-1947 // gChat [email protected] // Skype: garyslinger > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/garyslinger > > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ > ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ > > --- > To manage subscriptions click here: > http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ > or send an email to [email protected] > with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin > > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ > ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ > > --- > To manage subscriptions click here: > http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ > or send an email to [email protected] > with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to [email protected] with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
