Dennis -- see below
On 07/17/2011 02:18 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
Hi Kay,
I think there is a conflict of expectations and it is something that
we need to address.
The PPMC is not only former/current OpenOffice.org contributors and
we don't all know each other. And some of us are acquainted in
contexts that have nothing to do with OpenOffice.org. (I'm at a
forgetful age, but I don't think you or I have had any direct
experience of each other's contributions outside of ooo-dev, for
example.)
In some sense, the most effective way to be seen and known at the
PPMC is to contribute in all of the (hopefully-increasing) ways there
are to contribute on ooo-dev.
Whether we should be fast-tracking notable contributors to
OpenOffice.org in some manner or whether we should have the Apache
meritocracy take over in a strict way is something that the PPMC has
to deal with. You've hear one mentor assert the second case.
yes, I see this...
The composition of the PPMC is an accident of birth (and timing).
The presumption is that we will do the right thing in growing this
project into a thriving activity that merits advancement to an Apache
Top Level Project (TLP). That is what the PPMC job is, no matter
what we might have individually expected on arrival. Community
involvement is also a success factor.
How can we navigate the invitation of further committers in a
responsible way?
Well I DID in fact contact kenai -- though given the state of that
project -- I don't know if I'll hear back. I asked them to send me a
list of all members in projects long with their roles. I would think the
new Apache venture should at least be interested in folks who are
considered -- project admins on that side, and/or content/software
developers. These are the people that would historically be considered
"committers". I would think that some effort should be made to contact
these folks and ascertain future interest in participation and how.
Now there is info on the main OpenOffice.org site but there might also
be lots of confusion.
Anyway, if I don't hear back from kenai soonish (and I will be out of
touch mostly with family for about a week), I will try to pull this info
myself. My fear at this point, as I've already expressed, is that a very
large number of folks who were very actively involved becasue of the
inherent set-up in the "old" way are likely feeling quite lost at this
point. I don't mean to sound negative but, well, that's just what
happens when thing underlying architecture and governance is SO changed.
What are your and other's further thoughts?
- Dennis
LOOKING BACK TO HOW WE GOT HERE
It is true that it is a short time from June 1 (announcement of the
incubator proposal and discussions on gene...@incubator.apache.com)
to June 10 (commencement of the ballot to accept the proposed
incubator project).
I'm not sure it was a short time for a typical incubator proposal.
The gating factors seem to be that (1) there was considered to be a
sufficient list of Initial Committers and mentors for starting a
podling of the size and ambitions anticipated for OpenOffice.org, (2)
the proposal had been refined enough, and (3) the discussion on
various issues raised by commenters had died down enough to consider
it being time to vote. The Incubator PMC were the binding voters in
this case.
The idea of needing to make outreach to some broad community or
provide time to engage that community wasn't a prominent
consideration, as I recall. Because of the OpenOffice.org -
LibreOffice schism, a number of experienced Apache folks went to TDF
lists to inform participants there and to discuss how Apache operates
and what can reasonably be expected.
Uh well...this was nice but I'm wondering why the same wasn't done on
the openoffice lists, like maybe "announcements" ?????
I have no knowledge of the communications that happened on lists and
forums frequented by OpenOffice.org contributors. A substantial
proportion of OpenOffice.org participants appear to be among the
Initial Committers and there are more, such as yourself, who have
become active on ooo-dev since.
Right--I see that. From the participants, it seems many on the developer
lists were contacted, and maybe some project heads, but....
That's what happened that was visible to me. (I saw the announcement
on June 1 and registered on the wiki and the incubator list the same
day. My iCLA was sent in two days later and one week later I
received confirmation that it was registered. It is clearly an
accident of timing that it came to my attention immediately. That I
acted on it was my own sense and excitement over the opportunity.)
Well I saw this too but, kept waiting for something to come down in the
"usual" way, vis a vis an announcement list, etc. Oh well...we each have
our own ways of doing things I guess.
-----Original Message----- From: Kay Schenk
[mailto:kay.sch...@gmail.com]
<http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201107.mbox/%3c4e23377b.1040...@gmail.com%3e>
Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 12:27
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Project +
PPMC Growing Pains
On 07/13/2011 06:37 AM, Ross Gardler wrote:
<http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201107.mbox/%3ccakqbxgb83dos1nqtxh79l2qch3nw0vpxoahn1d9oghcn2vw...@mail.gmail.com%3e>
Responding as a mentor - not as an OO.o committer...
[ ... ]
�2. A person is considered eligible to become a committer when
there is an established pattern of contribution on the
project:<http://community.apache.org/newcommitter.html>.
�2.1 To what degree should contributions elsewhere -- a prior
reputation -- be taken into consideration? �2.2 For how long
should we do this, if at all?
Contributions elsewhere do not count. It is contributions here
that matter. There was plenty of time during proposal time for
past contributors to step up. They did not. Now this is an ASF
project everyone needs to earn merit in the ASF project not in what
went before.
One comment on this. I believe MANY past OpenOffice.org
contributors/committers were not even aware of the "proposal time".
So, this remark is a bit troubling to me. Really, it is only since
well about June 20th that more details of the move to Apache had
emerged.
I don't know how this information was supposedly made known, but,
well...a LOT of folks were NOT informed.
[ ... ]
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
MzK
"An old horse for a long hard road, a young pony for a quick ride".
-- Unknown
