Hi Adam, Thank you for your reply. It takes "guts" to comment on the past and admit mistakes. I respect your post and your discussion with us. I'm looking forward to meet you in person and the CFML future in general. You got my respect.
Kind Regards, Nitai On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:05 PM, Adrock <[email protected]> wrote: > Nitai/Vince/Alan, > > Points taken. It seems like there have been some invisible walls built > up around us over the years. It's a shame because I really do respect > the work you are doing with OpenBD. But at the end of the day, there > are people behind these products and personal relationships end up in > play. Honestly, I regret my initial post on the OpenBD announcement. I > still stand by my initial thoughts given New Atlanta's history, but I > shouldn't have spoken so public about it. That being said, I think the > OpenBD team has done a tremendous job in proving me wrong. So please > don't misconstrue my unwillingness to spark up a conversation at > Scotch on the Rocks. Given the history, I thought the team had a > distaste for me so it was all a bit awkward. > > Of course, I don't feel like I'm 100% to blame here. A lot of things > are said in private emails and offline that circulate. The CFML > community is very close, which is a great thing, but like any small > town, gossip can spread quickly (which is how we got to this thread). > My personal opinions regarding the anti-adobe sentiment comes from > what I hear and my direct interactions with the various team members. > However, I'm willing to put all this in the past and move forward with > the idea that there is no ill-will between either parties. > > In the end, I want OpenBD and Railo to be successful, but not at the > expense of ColdFusion. For that, there will always be some level of > competition between the teams. I'll do whatever is in my power to help > you attract new CFML developers, but Adobe holds the CF product team > responsible for growing our customer base. It is what it is, but I > think there is no reason not to be civil. > > -Adam > > > > > > -Adam > > > > > On Dec 1, 3:29 am, "Nitai @ Razuna" <[email protected]> wrote: >> @Adam (Adobe) >> >> Conferences: >> I think you missed the point here. No one is blaming or saying that >> Adobe does not sponsor enough conferences. The whole point of this >> thread is that Adobe, according to some community leaders, is telling >> conference organizers that they will withdraw as sponsor IF any OpenBD >> sessions will be run during the conferences. I don't expect you to >> tell us the truth here, but I know for a fact, that this is so, since >> I'm in contact with some of them. >> >> Anti-Adobe Sentiments: >> You got to be kidding right? As a member of the OpenBD Steering >> Committee I can attest that there has never been a single word or >> email for that matter against Adobe or Railo. We don't waste our time, >> figuring out how we can "destroy the evil" Adobe, you know. Instead we >> are building things and bringing forward innovative new features to >> the language. I think, everyone with an open mind can see that we >> bring forward new releases and what we do to OpenBD is for the better >> good of the CFML language and the community. >> >> As far as hostility goes, I have to say that much that you, Adam, >> during the Scotch on the Rocks session, did not even bother talking to >> any of the OpenBD people at all. You and Ben have been introduced to >> Alan, Andy and myself and had nothing to say. Moreover you simply >> walked away. Not a manner for a gentleman, furthermore for someone who >> is a public figure of a public company. Your blog posts do nothing >> else then praising Railo and its license, but at the same time >> criticizing any effort that the OpenBD community is doing. >> >> For me, it is very sad to read and hear all this. The sense that many >> people get from you is that you are very much against anything that >> comes from OpenBD. Be it the people, be it the license or whatever we >> do. As you can see from this thread, we let everyone speak up, if they >> are pro or con, because we believe in freedom. >> >> Simply put, Adobe CFML is not seen as a competitor in any of the >> OpenBD SC members. We simply don't work like that. I know this is hard >> for someone to understand who is working for his salary and is inside >> a corporate culture. >> >> Kind Regards, >> Nitai >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 7:25 PM, Adrock <[email protected]> wrote: >> > @Adam, >> >> >> If that is not a word smithed sentence to twist out some truth. >> >> I'll call a spade a spade here, Adobe may not tell a conference they can >> >> not >> >> have a certain sponsor but Adobe certainly can and DOES let conferences >> >> know >> >> they will withhold funds if other sponsors are accepted. >> >> > As far as word-smithing goes, you've really decided to focus on the >> > smallest part of our exchange. Since Adobe is not currently signed on >> > to sponsor cf.objective, I thought it was inappropriate for Adobe to >> > make any recommendations and declines to do so. I thought that point >> > was very clear, so I can only assume you are tying to make the public >> > the real disposition of the conversation. >> >> > Adobe is considering not sponsoring cf.objective at all. >> >> > Last year the CF team sponsored 20+ events in 2009 that didn't exist >> > the year prior. Due to the demands of the community, all of these >> > events were targeted at developer _acquisition_. While I love >> > cf.objective and the team that puts it on (which includes help from my >> > wife), it does not introduce CFML/ColdFusion to new developers. Due to >> > tighter budgets, we can no longer just sponsor every event >> > automatically. >> >> >>So if you 2, Adam and Vince, could go ahead and shut up and take your >> >>pissing match elsewhere I think we all would be better off. >> >> > Done. You'll hear nothing further from me on the topic. But I think >> > Vince and I are unfairly being blamed as the source of the problem and >> > our emails/posts are just a result. There is a strong anti-Adobe >> > sentiment coming from the OpenBD community that is fueled by it's >> > leaders. Sensationalist claims like this only add flames to the fire. >> > In the short-term, this might attract the dissatisfied to OpenBD, but >> > ultimately it's just building walls that splinter our already small >> > community. >> >> > -Adam >> >> > On Nov 24, 6:42 pm, Adam Haskell <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Now that the official stuff is out of the way time for my own personal >> >> interjection... >> >> >> Adam, you've done a very good job steering ColdFusion in a healthy >> >> direction. You've listened to the community and made some rough decision; >> >> all the while in a rough economical climate ColdFusion continues to be a >> >> source of revenue for Adobe and a large amount of that is thanks to you, >> >> and >> >> your team. You do have some growing up to do and coming onto this list or >> >> any others and spewing garbage is just not becoming of someone in your >> >> position. "Adobe does not tell conference providers who can and can not >> >> sponsor." If that is not a word smithed sentence to twist out some truth. >> >> I'll call a spade a spade here, Adobe may not tell a conference they can >> >> not >> >> have a certain sponsor but Adobe certainly can and DOES let conferences >> >> know >> >> they will withhold funds if other sponsors are accepted. Don't get me >> >> wrong >> >> I am not bitter that Adobe does this, it is sound business and makes >> >> sense. >> >> I AM bitter that you, Adam, chose to word smith your way into a misleading >> >> truth. >> >> >> Vince, I appreciate all the contributions you have made to the engine, you >> >> are a Key player in the GAE but once again you've managed to put out a >> >> message that begs for negativity. You seriously need to work on that. I >> >> know >> >> there is bitterness and annimocity towards individuals and I undersatand >> >> but >> >> seriously tone it down and be less confrontational with your message. If >> >> not >> >> for the sake of your company for the sake of the Steering Committee, >> >> rightly >> >> so or not your comments are reflected on the Steering Committee so please >> >> watch how you deliver your messages. >> >> >> So if you 2, Adam and Vince, could go ahead and shut up and take your >> >> pissing match elsewhere I think we all would be better off. >> >> >> Adam >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 5:49 PM, Adrock <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > Here is another view: >> >> >> > - Adobe does not tell conference providers who can and can not >> >> > sponsor. >> >> >> > - New Atlanta is not viewed as a threat to Adobe. >> >> >> > - I personally want OpenBD to be successful and tried my best to show >> >> > the community that two open source CFML engines can coexist. However, >> >> > Vince detracted that point by commenting: >> >> >> > "'the incredible amount of work people are putting into the (OpenBD) >> >> > project for _zero_ financial gain' is being done primarily by New >> >> > Atlanta employees who are being paid to work on OpenBD." >> >> >> > Drawing a direct and active connection between New Atlanta and OpenBD >> >> > (not to mention writing off the donated work done by community). >> >> >> > - Based on our estimates, Railo has experienced more recent commercial >> >> > success than New Atlanta. However, even when combined with New >> >> > Atlanta, the impact is not great enough to warrant any concern over >> >> > lost business. Adobe remains focused on developer acquisition from >> >> > external communities (which is what our community demands). >> >> >> > - As you can see from Vince's post there is still much animosity from >> >> > New Atlanta towards Adobe. If the relations between Railo and Adobe >> >> > are more positive, then I can only point to the personalities >> >> > involved. >> >> >> > In general, New Atlanta needs to stop blaming Adobe for everything >> >> > that ills it. If a ColdFusion conference rejects a sponsor who offers >> >> > "migration solutions from ColdFusion applications to ASP.NET", maybe >> >> > it's because they don't want to help that cause, not because of some >> >> > sinister Adobe plot. >> >> >> > -Adam >> >> > ColdFusion Product Manager at Adobe >> >> >> > On Nov 13, 3:26 pm, Vince Bonfanti <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > Here's one view: >> >> >> > > - Adobe considers New Atlanta to be a threat to their ColdFusion >> >> > business >> >> > > due to the commercial success of BlueDragon (especially BD.NET, and >> >> > due >> >> > > to high-profile customer wins such as MySpace). >> >> > > - Adobe associates OpenBD with New Atlanta, and therefore does not >> >> > want >> >> > > OpenBD to be successful. >> >> > > - Adobe does not consider Railo to be a threat because they have >> >> > > not >> >> > yet >> >> > > had any real commercial success (at least not on the same scale as >> >> > > New >> >> > > Atlanta and BlueDragon). >> >> > > - Adobe wants to use Railo as a counter-weight to diminish the >> >> > influence >> >> > > of OpenBD (and--in their minds--New Atlanta). >> >> >> > > There's already been some anti-Railo rhetoric from Adobe--it's fairly >> >> > > predictable what will happen if they ever start to view Railo as a >> >> > > threat >> >> > to >> >> > > their ColdFusion business. I've heard through the grapevine that Adobe >> >> > has >> >> > > already threatened third-party vendors who make their products >> >> > > compatible >> >> > > with Railo. >> >> >> > > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 2:39 PM, Jason King <[email protected]> >> >> > wrote: >> >> > > > That's not cool. I wonder why Railo but not OpenBD? >> >> >> > -- >> >> > Open BlueDragon Public Mailing List >> >> > http://www.openbluedragon.org/ http://twitter.com/OpenBlueDragon >> >> > mailing list -http://groups.google.com/group/openbd?hl=en >> >> >> > !! save a network - please trim replies before posting !! >> >> > -- >> > Open BlueDragon Public Mailing List >> > http://www.openbluedragon.org/ http://twitter.com/OpenBlueDragon >> > mailing list -http://groups.google.com/group/openbd?hl=en >> >> > !! save a network - please trim replies before posting !! >> >> -- >> Razuna SaaS On-Demand - Hosted Digital Asset Management >> Solutionhttp://www.razuna.com/ >> >> Razuna - Open Source Digital Asset Managementhttp://www.razuna.org/ >> >> Follow us on Twitter... >> >> read more » > > -- > Open BlueDragon Public Mailing List > http://www.openbluedragon.org/ http://twitter.com/OpenBlueDragon > mailing list - http://groups.google.com/group/openbd?hl=en > > !! save a network - please trim replies before posting !! > -- Razuna SaaS On-Demand - Hosted Digital Asset Management Solution http://www.razuna.com/ Razuna - Open Source Digital Asset Management http://www.razuna.org/ Follow us on Twitter http://twitter.com/sixsigns -- Open BlueDragon Public Mailing List http://www.openbluedragon.org/ http://twitter.com/OpenBlueDragon mailing list - http://groups.google.com/group/openbd?hl=en !! save a network - please trim replies before posting !!
