Something I guess would go on such a page? http://fxexperience.com/2013/08/javafx-hd-menus-on-raspberrypi/
On Aug 1, 2013, at 3:21 AM, Anton Epple <toni.ep...@eppleton.de> wrote: > Great idea, there's a site that does the same for NetBeans Platform Apps: > > https://platform.netbeans.org/screenshots.html > > I can tell from my own experience that it helps a lot in discussions with > customers to show them that NASA, NATO, Boeing, UNO, US Army, and many others > are building on top of NB Platform. > > From the maintainer of this site, I know there's a lot of work involved > though, and you have to be very active in identifying users, and reaching out > to them. It's definitely not sufficient to wait for users to submit their > applications. Sometimes it can take a couple of years from first contact to a > screenshot. That said it's absolutely worth it, and I would volunteer to help > in any way I can. > > Toni > > -- > Anton Epple > > > > Am 28.07.2013 um 02:38 schrieb Jonathan Giles <jonathan.gi...@oracle.com>: > >> This is something that Jasper actually brought up just this morning with >> Richard and I (wrt fxexperience hosting it). I suspect we may get something >> underway in the coming weeks. Of course, it depends on the community getting >> in touch with us and letting us talk about them - so much of the JavaFX >> world is behind corporate firewalls, where talking about your work is >> generally frowned upon. In any case, for those of you that can talk about >> your work, please email one of us off-list. >> -- Jonathan >> Sent from a touch device. Please excuse my brevity. >> >> "John C. Turnbull" <ozem...@ozemail.com.au> wrote: >>> +1 >>> >>> Such a site could be very useful. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net >>> [mailto:openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net] On Behalf Of Daniel >>> Zwolenski >>> Sent: Sunday, 28 July 2013 09:56 >>> To: Pedro Duque Vieira >>> Cc: OpenJFX Mailing List >>> Subject: JavaFX Sightings (forked from Re: Can JavaFX do CAD?) >>> >>> The idea of a JFX Sightings page (in the tradition of the Swing >>> Sightings >>> page) has been raised before and I think is a good one. >>> >>> It deserves it's own page though, that technet section isn't up to it >>> in my >>> opinion. >>> >>> Personally I think this would be great under the fxexperience site as >>> it >>> partners nicely with the links of the week? >>> >>> >>> >>> On 28/07/2013, at 4:17 AM, Pedro Duque Vieira >>> <pedro.duquevie...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I have an Swing/JavaFX app, the site is: http://modellus.co >>>> >>>> How can I get it to be on that real world usecases section? Or does >>> it >>>> not have the necessary requirements to be in it? >>>> >>>> Thanks, best regards, >>>> >>>> @John: On the JavaFx community site they have a section with >>>> references to >>>>> real world usecases. >>>>> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javafx/community/index.html >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 1:40 AM, John C. Turnbull >>>>> <ozem...@ozemail.com.au >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Like Daniel said, none of what we say is in any way a criticism of >>>>>> the JavaFX development team who, in my view and that of the entire >>>>>> community, are doing an awesome job. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> For mine, all the shortcomings of JavaFX (perceived or actual) can >>>>>> be >>>>> blown >>>>>> away if I could just demonstrate what JavaFX is really capable of. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> We have Ensemble from Oracle and also Ensemble from JFXtras (whose >>>>>> demo incidentally doesn't run since Java 7 Update 21). With Oracle >>> >>>>>> Ensemble >>>>> we >>>>>> can see that JavaFX has quite a nice set of basic controls and that >>> >>>>>> it at least supports very simple animations. With JFXtras Ensemble >>> >>>>>> we can see that very nice controls are possible but unfortunately >>>>>> many of these are >>>>> of >>>>>> a rather "whimsical" nature and not the kind of control you would >>>>>> use in everyday business apps. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> What else is there? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Of course we have rock stars like Gerrit Grunwald who frequently >>>>>> post awesome controls and code snippets but we really need >>> something >>>>>> that >>>>> brings >>>>>> it altogether in a kick-arse showcase. Preferably a whole suite of >>>>> killer >>>>>> apps that highlights everything JavaFX is capable of. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, that would require a lot of effort but IMHO it is absolutely >>>>>> worth >>>>> it. >>>>>> Without it, people like me really struggle to sell JavaFX or even >>>>>> get a handle on its true potential. I can promise people that more >>> >>>>>> advanced things are "possible" but given that they write the >>>>>> cheques, they need to see it for themselves. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> And how about a website of JavaFX reference sites? There must be >>>>>> big companies out there using it right? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> In the end it doesn't matter if I personally see enormous potential >>> >>>>>> for JavaFX if I cannot convince others to see what I see. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -jct >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Daniel Zwolenski [mailto:zon...@gmail.com] >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, 27 July 2013 09:12 >>>>>> To: John C. Turnbull >>>>>> Cc: Richard Bair; openjfx-dev@openjdk.java.net >>>>>> Subject: Re: Can JavaFX do CAD? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> +1 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I've failed to convince multiple clients that they should use JFX >>>>>> because of >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> a) lack of examples of what it can really do, and how to make it do >>> >>>>>> that (e.g. in enterprise space we have >>>>>> http://static.springsource.org/docs/petclinic.html) >>>>>> >>>>>> b) lack of any big or notable players out there actually using it, >>>>>> or at least publicly saying they are using it >>>>>> >>>>>> c) the deployment hassles vs the ease of html app deployment and >>> the >>>>>> true cross-platform-ness of html >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> After actually getting one client to trust me on it and use it on a >>> >>>>>> real, commercial app (startup), I hit problems with performance >>>>>> (broad interpretation of the term, not 'framerate'), crippling >>>>>> deployment and >>>>> auto >>>>>> updating issues, missing basic features (e.g. maximise button, >>>>>> coming in >>>>>> 2014 I believe?), unpredictability of CSS styling, and a lack of >>>>>> best practices for things like how to do CAD-like diagrams (not so >>>>>> much render performance but zooming, panning, mouse input, >>> layering, >>> dragging, etc). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Like John, I've been guilty of letting my frustration show in these >>>>> forums. >>>>>> Like John, it's because I want so badly for JavaFX to be the >>>>>> platform I develop on, it has the potential to be awesome, but >>>>>> things (that seem obvious and small to me) completely stop it from >>>>>> being usable in a real world situation for me. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> It's not that we think the JFX team aren't slogging their guts out, >>>>> clearly >>>>>> you are. It's just that in some key areas, there are small-ish >>>>>> blocks >>>>> that >>>>>> stop the whole rocket from launching. To then see a whole lot of >>>>>> effort >>>>> be >>>>>> poured into things like binary CSS/FXML compilation, Pi platform >>>>>> support (that's more important than iOS/Android, really?), web >>>>>> deployment >>>>> patches, >>>>>> or even 3D (as cool as that is), just knocks me about. Obviously >>>>>> your priorities are coming from somewhere different to ours, but >>> the >>>>>> way you prioritise is unfathomable to me and that definitely adds >>> to >>>>>> the frustration. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> At this stage, I am not suggesting my clients use JFX (I actively >>>>>> discourage them from it, in their interest). Mobile is the area >>> that >>>>>> has the >>>>> potential >>>>>> to bring JFX back into usable for me as it can compete easier with >>>>>> the current technologies (which are all crap). Maybe if that ends >>> up >>>>>> working >>>>> (a >>>>>> long, long road to go on that and very much an 'if') then it will >>>>>> seep >>>>> back >>>>>> into the desktop for me, but at a minimum the desktop deployment >>>>>> options will need to be improved before that's even a possibility. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I've come to accept that I am not in the primary target audience >>> for >>>>>> JavaFX, maybe a secondary target. I don't understand who the >>> primary >>>>>> target is though, and knowing/accepting doesn't make it any less >>>>>> frustrating. I >>>>> keep >>>>>> involved in the hope that I might get a usable platform somewhere >>>>>> along >>>>> the >>>>>> way but it's more of a hope than a belief. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> So nothing really new above, but just adding my voice to John's. >>>>>> JavaFX >>>>> is >>>>>> definitely not production ready for me, my clients and the types of >>> >>>>>> apps >>>>> I >>>>>> build (e.g. consumer facing online systems, enterprise/backoffice >>>>> systems, >>>>>> form/data systems, diagramming systems). One day I hope it will be, >>> >>>>>> but it's moving extremely slowly or not at all in the areas that >>>>>> would make it so for me. Meanwhile the competitors (primarily >>>>>> JavaScript based solutions) are improving rapidly in the areas >>> where >>>>>> they have traditionally been weak. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 8:30 AM, John C. Turnbull < >>>>> ozem...@ozemail.com.au >>>>>> <mailto:ozem...@ozemail.com.au> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Richard, >>>>>> >>>>>> I have to stop posting late at night, that one came across as >>> really >>>>> ANGRY! >>>>>> >>>>>> It's not anger, it's passion... and frustration. >>>>>> >>>>>> I am frustrated because I spend much of my day trying to convince >>> my >>>>>> employer that we should be using JavaFX. They ask me questions >>> like: >>>>>> >>>>>> "What happens if Oracle abandons JavaFX just like Sun did with JMF, >>>>> Java3D, >>>>>> JOGL etc. ?" >>>>>> >>>>>> I say: >>>>>> >>>>>> "This is Oracle, not Sun." >>>>>> >>>>>> They say: >>>>>> >>>>>> "Can you show me what JavaFX can do? There must be examples out >>>>>> there right?" >>>>>> >>>>>> And I say: >>>>>> >>>>>> "Sure, here's Ensemble." >>>>>> >>>>>> They say: >>>>>> >>>>>> "OK, so it has a nice set of basic controls and can do simple >>>>>> animations but what about more complex things like Flash?" >>>>>> >>>>>> ...hence the dancing cat reference. >>>>>> >>>>>> It's not that my employer *needs* dancing cats, it's just that they >>> >>>>>> need >>>>> to >>>>>> see that there is more to JavaFX than red circle transitions. I >>>>>> can't >>>>> even >>>>>> prove to them that JavaFX is capable of dancing cats. They don't >>>>>> have >>>>> the >>>>>> resources to fund me to develop something more sophisticated but >>>>>> they >>>>> tell >>>>>> me that if JavaFX truly was a "mature" technology (like I tell >>> them) >>>>>> then where are all the examples? >>>>>> >>>>>> I am finding it difficult to convince them that JavaFX is >>> production >>>>> ready >>>>>> and is not still in "experimental" mode because I am unable to >>>>> demonstrate >>>>>> its true capabilities or refer them to many examples of people (and >>> >>>>>> I >>>>> mean >>>>>> big companies) actually using it. >>>>>> >>>>>> The main concerns of my employer and I think many companies in a >>>>>> similar situation is that JavaFX won't survive long term and that >>> it >>>>>> is only >>>>> really >>>>>> suitable for form based applications. Then of course there is the >>>>>> whole >>>>>> "HTML5 runs on all platforms" argument but that's another story... >>>>>> >>>>>> So this is why I think it's imperative that Oracle invests in >>>>>> developing >>>>> a >>>>>> true showcase application for JavaFX. Something that non-technical >>>>> people >>>>>> (like managers who make decisions about where the money goes) can >>>>>> look at it and go "wow!". >>>>>> >>>>>> I am just not getting my managers to go "wow" at what I can show >>>>>> them >>>>> with >>>>>> JavaFX at the moment. >>>>>> >>>>>> Every comment or apparent criticism I post about JavaFX is from the >>> >>>>>> perspective that I am trying to deal with real-world problems and >>>>>> people who require proof (such as demos, reference sites etc.) and >>>>>> not because I myself think JavaFX is not up to scratch. >>>>>> >>>>>> It's quite the opposite actually. >>>>>> >>>>>> I am a very, very strong believer and supporter of JavaFX and have >>>>>> many reasons both personal and professional as to why I want it to >>>>>> be a >>>>> massive >>>>>> success. As I have said before, there are plenty of people who >>>>>> praise JavaFX and tend to avoid the very real issues that are >>>>>> restricting its adoption. I just think we have to face these >>> issues >>>>>> head on if we are to compete in what is a very cut-throat industry. >>>>>> >>>>>> -jct >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Richard Bair [mailto:richard.b...@oracle.com >>>>>> <mailto:richard.b...@oracle.com> ] >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, 27 July 2013 01:40 >>>>>> To: John C. Turnbull >>>>>> Cc: 'Daniel Zwolenski'; openjfx-dev@openjdk.java.net >>>>>> <mailto:openjfx-dev@openjdk.java.net> >>>>>> Subject: Re: Can JavaFX do CAD? >>>>>> >>>>>>> For Flash, there are literally millions of examples of >>>>>>> fancy/complex/impressive graphics and animations out there that >>> can >>>>>>> be really impressive at times. I have not seen ONE such example >>> in >>>>> JavaFX! >>>>>> >>>>>> Point to one? >>>>>> >>>>>> Have you seen any of the JavaOne examples? The movie wall or movies >>> >>>>>> on a stack of 3D cubes was pretty good. But I guess you're not >>>>>> interested in >>>>> the >>>>>> 3D aspect? What is it you are looking for exactly? Different people >>> >>>>>> (on this >>>>>> list) have had different perceptions on both (a) what's important >>>>>> and (b) what kind of graphics they're interested in. Most people >>>>>> would deride the dancing cat as being totally irrelevant to the >>>>>> types of applications they're trying to build (the basis for much >>> of >>>>>> flash animations is shape >>>>> morphing, >>>>>> you can find some code here >>> https://gist.github.com/gontard/5029764). >>>>>> >>>>>> On the other hand, JavaFX is not a replacement for OpenGL. Drawing >>>>>> 25 million lines is just not something we can do right now, >>>>>> especially in a resource constrained environment. I've already >>>>>> commented on the memory overhead (which would continue to be an >>>>>> issue even if the drawing part of the problem were solved). >>>>>> >>>>>> I've pushed to graphics repo the StretchyGrid, which is about 300k >>>>>> line nodes (the actual amount is variable, see the javadoc >>>>>> comments). At 300k nodes the scene graph overhead is negligible on >>>>>> the FX side, dirty opts >>>>> is >>>>>> taking a long time to run, and painting is really slow. >>>>>> >>>>>> PULSE: 347 [122ms:222ms] >>>>>> T12 (8 +0ms): CSS Pass >>>>>> T12 (8 +0ms): Layout Pass >>>>>> T12 (47 +53ms): Waiting for previous rendering >>>>>> T12 (100 +1ms): Copy state to render graph >>>>>> T10 (101 +16ms): Dirty Opts Computed >>>>>> T10 (117 +105ms): Painted >>>>>> Counters: >>>>>> Nodes rendered: 306565 >>>>>> Nodes visited during render: 306565 >>>>>> >>>>>> If I were doing this by hand in open GL, I think the drawing would >>>>>> be essentially free, if I used LINES with GL anti-aliasing, I could >>> >>>>>> send 'em all down to the card in a single shot (and if I had a >>>>>> modern GL I could >>>>> do >>>>>> LINES + FXAA or one of the other per-pixel AA algorithms available >>>>>> and it would turn out pretty nice). Because our shapes don't >>>>>> implement the >>>>> non-AA >>>>>> path, and our AA involves software rasterization and uploading of >>>>> pixels, I >>>>>> expect that to be the main source of the 105ms time being spent >>> here. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also I noticed (by turning on prism.showdirty=true) that the entire >>> >>>>>> grid >>>>> is >>>>>> being painted every time, even though visually it looks like only a >>> >>>>>> small subset actually needs to be changed. But that's really a >>> minor >>>>>> thing, as >>>>> I >>>>>> said, drawing this many lines should basically be free if I >>>>>> configure "smooth" to false in the app. Except that right now it is >>> >>>>>> totally not implemented (in NGShape): >>>>>> >>>>>> public void setAntialiased(boolean aa) { >>>>>> // We don't support aliased shapes at this time >>>>>> } >>>>>> >>>>>> The point of stretchy grid is not to say "wow look at this amazing >>> demo". >>>>>> The point is to say "what happens if I put in 300K nodes. Where >>> does >>>>>> the system start to fall over?". >>>>>> >>>>>> Richard= >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Pedro Duque Vieira >
