The convention of putting /usr/gnu/ in the path first is not 
architecture that has been voted upon and agreed upon in architecture 
review -- yet.  Its part of the specification of closed case 2010/067.

Unfortunately it is not in my power to open up the case, but I wonder if 
these arguments shouldn't be sent to psarc-ext@ for the other PSARC 
members to be aware of.

     -- Garrett

On 03/23/10 05:13 AM, Octave Orgeron wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I strongly agree with the idea that we should update and enhance our Solaris 
> userland tools. I think it's rather cheap and short-sighted that the GNU 
> toolset is seen as the future. Obviously, there are plenty of features in 
> Solaris that the GNU userland does not support. And in my book, that pretty 
> much means we have to focus on our own userland tools. I'd rather have users 
> and customers come to OpenSolaris/Solaris and be surprised and pleased with 
> the robustness of our userland tools in addition to the OS itself. I don't 
> care for jumping on the Penguin bus. If I wanted to run Linux, I'd go back to 
> it.
>
> And realistically, Linux users are not going to jump over onto Solaris, 
> OpenSolaris, *BSD, Plan9, etc. Get over it, they already chose their OS and 
> religion. Can we please stop trying to please an audience and customer base 
> that will never materialize?? Look at the BSDs, they differentiate themselves 
> and hold onto their user base without jumping on the Penguin bus. Why can't 
> we be that strong and dedicated to making OpenSolaris the best UNIX? I care 
> more about compliance to POSIX and the Open Group than I do with GNU/Linux.
>
> Regardless of who got onto the OGB this year, I'm starting to think that 
> there should be a conference of some kind were people in the OpenSolaris 
> community can come together and have a real architecture discussion. Perhaps 
> it's time for the OpenSolaris System Standard to be defined and voted on?
>
> Octave
>
>   
> *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
> Octave J. Orgeron
> Solaris Virtualization Architect and Consultant
> Web: http://unixconsole.blogspot.com
> E-Mail: unixconsole at yahoo.com
> *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Milan Jurik<Milan.Jurik at sun.com>
> To: Nicolas Williams<Nicolas.Williams at sun.com>
> Cc: shell-discuss at opensolaris.org; Garrett D'Amore<gdamore at sun.com>; 
> PSARC-ext at sun.com; Darren Reed<Darren.Reed at sun.com>
> Sent: Tue, March 23, 2010 1:43:28 AM
> Subject: Re: More ksh93 builtins
>
> Hi Nico,
>
> Nicolas Williams p??e v po 22. 03. 2010 v 12:08 -0500:
>    
>> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 09:46:27AM -0700, Darren Reed wrote:
>>      
>>> On 22/03/10 07:21 AM, Alan Coopersmith wrote:
>>>        
>>>> Milan Jurik wrote:
>>>>          
>>>>> Alan Coopersmith p??e v p? 19. 03. 2010 v 16:39 -0700:
>>>>>            
>>>>>> Garrett D'Amore wrote:
>>>>>>              
>>>>>>> I'm also of the opinion that it is a mistake to sacrifice familiarity
>>>>>>> for our paying Solaris 10 customers in favor of familiarity for people
>>>>>>> coming from Linux.
>>>>>>>                
>>>>>> But clearly all our paying Solaris 10 customers already have dotfiles to
>>>>>> set $PATH, given how useless the default Solaris 10 $PATH is.
>>>>>>              
>>>>> I would be very carefull with claiming "all our paying Solaris 10
>>>>> customers"...
>>>>>            
>>>> Okay, make it "Any Solaris 10 customer (paying or not) who actually wants
>>>> to use the system" - given the lack of some basic commands in the default
>>>> path, such as /usr/sbin/ping or /usr/ccs/bin/make, the Solaris 10 default
>>>> PATH shows we've long required customers to change the default PATH to
>>>> actually make the system usable to either sysadmins or developers.
>>>>          
>>> And...?
>>>
>>> I doubt there exists a system where system administrators
>>> and/or developers don't customise their path. Go back and
>>> read Octave Orgeron's email.
>>>        
>> Moreover, the new default path is backed into the user's dot files at
>> account creation time.
>>
>> If you deploy Solaris Next in an environment where user accounts already
>> exist then those will be completely unaffected.
>>
>> I don't understand the sturm un drang over the /usr/gnu/bin-first-in-
>> default-PATH thing.  It's a NON-ISSUE (except for GNU tools like ls and
>> chmod where lack of support for Solaris-specific features creates
>> problems.
>>
>>      
> It is issue for some of us and our point of view. ACLs impacts ls, chmod
> (cp, tar?). Linker incompatibility impacts those who invokes linker
> directly. I do not care about "sleep" command differences, where I care
> it is sacrifice Solaris specific features (which we present as our
> significant difference against competitors) for some other minor
> features. We see and hear "it is temporary". Roadmap? Solaris ls was
> improved by community member to level matching GNU ls. Still GNU ls is
> in system. Why? What are rules to remove GNU tool from prefered PATH if
> it is in conflict with Solaris features?
>
> Aren't you see confusing for newcommers simple scenario which is
> happening on OpenSolaris today? OK, cool, I have ZFS and I heard ACLs
> are supported there. How should I work with them. I am Linux guru, so
> let's try setattr. No, it is not here. Hmmmmm. docs.sun.com. Great it
> say ls/chmod is supporting it. OMG, not mine. OMG, what is wrong? Crappy
> Solaris, what a mess.
>
> Yes, we have "grep -R" and "tar xzf" for these users now. But we are
> presenting them very inconsistent situation now. Yes, old Solaris users
> will survive it most probably (unhappy that we are leaving them with old
> tools saying GNU is future even if incompatible and with lack of
> features), it will cost them only some time and money.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Milan
>
>
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