On Sun, 2007-07-08 at 14:27 -0400, James Tremblay wrote: > On Sun, 2007-07-08 at 18:30 +0200, Alberto Passalacqua wrote: > > Il giorno dom, 08/07/2007 alle 09.14 -0400, James Tremblay ha scritto: > > > > > Gentleman, > > > I would like to point out that the teXlive\Tex\LaTex debate seems to be > > > concerned with a relatively small group(in a world domination approach > > > of distribution, which openSUSE needs) of university\scientific users. > > > > I really think it's important to keep existing users before thinking to > > the world domination, which is, however, far if it will ever happen. > > > > So you would rather hinder spreading openSUSE than to separate packages > onto alternative sources? > > > Excluding packages like LaTeX from media means excluding from the user > > base an important group of users: students, teachers, university labs. > > They won't accept to install LaTeX on each machine separately. You've to > > keep in mind that in many universities PC's are directly maintained by > > users and not by admins. > > These users don't already install MSOffice from a separate media when > they need it? Separating the OS installation media from the products is > a well established format. Ubuntu, is catching on quite well and they > use installation repositories for all but the OS. > > > > > Plus, universities and research centres are where students (future > > users) get in contact with Linux. Do you think they will choose a > > distribution which requires additional media to use LaTeX (many teachers > > and scientific papers requires it) or a distribution which allows to > > install it comfortably at the installation time? > > If they are university level users than they are smart enough to > decipher the location of an additional product media when downloading > openSUSE and choose to download the LaTex product media as well, or do > you assume they are to lazy to download an extra disk? In which case how > do they get the non-oss media? > It's a simple economics problem, how do you get the extra software to > the people that want it without it costing you extra money every time > someone who doesn't want it downloads. You provide multiple media and > installation sources in a well defined library. Just because it's free > software doesn't mean openSUSE should pay all the bills of your getting > it! > > > > > > > This program group seems to take enough space to be on it's own CD\DVD. > > > As openSUSE moves towards the idea that the base install should meet the > > > needs of a larger group, i.e Home Users, some of the current groups are > > > going to have to accept that there favorite program will need to be on > > > an "Add-On" product CD\DVD. > > > > We are not talking of creating an additional DVD or CD. We are talking > > about leaving LaTeX only on FTP. > > > > see above remark containing Ubuntu reference. > > > > > In terms of > > > sharing them, this will increase the ease in which you distribute the > > > programs to your students \ co-workers by alleviating the requirement > > > that you have to distribute and entire distro to your students \ > > > co-workers. Your schools \ departments could simply start saying > > > openSUSE X.x or SLED X.x are necessary to take part in course X \ work > > > in department X, much like they do now for other topics, and you then > > > hand out the Tex\TeXlive DVD. > > > > Right. I see the freedom in forcing someone to use OpenSUSE or SLED > > because someone else decided. The original idea was to use Linux (what > > distribution I like) and I will find the software I need because it > > works on all distributions. It's one of the principles which brought > > Linux to be what it is today. > > Now your just pissing in the wind! Schools\Universities force > homogenization on students all the time. Some Schools even force you to > buy your laptop from a list of accepted versions or even from the school > bookstore. You say it yourself "and I will find the software I need > because it works on all distributions", let them find it on > software.opensuse.org nicely package specifically for the version they > are on and easily downloaded\mirrored to the schools local > repository...and they all have one! > > > > We as community members are responsible to the distribution and it's > > > well being,(that old "the good of many" thing) and in order for openSUSE > > > to move forward it must make life easier for a much bigger group, as the > > > 1-cd install idea does. > > > > Right. Let the home users use the 1 CD install. And put what UNIX and > > Linux users want and expect to be part of the distribution on the DVD. > > No one needs to download a 4 gig DVD just for a few programs and its > download should eventually be discontinued (Bandwidth costs openSUSE > too!)and those buying the retail version should get 3 disks; > 1: OS base install (CD-1 of choice) > 2: additional products (everything on the current OSS DVD minus the OS) > 3: non-oss > > if a particular group wants something like the "Tex" it can be > constructed into an "Add-on" ISO very easily, maybe even with an on-line > tool to do so, since there is already a YaST module under construction > for this. It could even start a new business line for openSUSE like > those adverts you see for buying copies of Linux distro's, only openSUSE > could also offer any software in the build-service and any arch packed > onto an ISO and mailed for $X.00 > > > > > To win, Linux has to be accessible to everyone (another basic > > principle), also those without a fast connection, and they're a lot, for > > various reasons. That's why it's important to have at least one > > "complete" set of media. > > In that case, a library of downloadable\shipable sub-product RPM's\ISO's > makes even more sense, i.e. I can afford an hour of downloads this month > and I want the new openSUSE and the scientific tools group, I get > CD1-gnome in 15 minutes and the scientific tools in another 20, Now I > have 25 minutes to get a new game or two ;) vs I got the core dvd in 70 > minutes hope I can scrape up the extra cash somehow. > I shouldn't take from openSUSE or my co-workers\family any unnecessary > bandwidth. > > > > > With kind regards, > > A. > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- James Tremblay Director of Technology Newmarket School District Newmarket,NH http://en.opensuse.org/Education "let's make a difference"
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