On Sat, 29 Dec, 2007 at 12:20:49 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
<snip>
>> I can certainly see an application having a dependency for certain things
>> in
>> the basic desktop system. I cannot see why the desktop system would have a
>> dependency on an obscure add-on type of application to function. That is
>> bass
>> ackwards! Guess I just don't understand. I'm not a software
>> designer/engineer. Maybe there is some logical reason, somewhere, somehow.
>
> There sure is.
Then again, maybe not. Take this example of a newly installed 10.3 KDE
system with misc. multimedia stuff installed (from packman et al):
"openSUSE update" keeps telling me there's "New software updates available"
open it up, click 'details', I get;
(selected) amarok "fixes to improve..." "recommended" version=4492-0
(unselected) openmotif22libs "64bit package added..." "optional"
version=4540-0
Now; I'm messing about, copying misc. configs from backups etc. - setting
desktop preferences, doing the usual personalization stuff. Plenty of times
logged out/back in, system rebooted for whatever other reasons.
Every time I'm logged back in, the updater tells me there's 'new' updates
available. Many times I told the updater to 'update', and everytime it comes
back with 'new updates' status.
At this point I'm pretty fed up with the whole thing, especially since I
don't much care for Amarok anyway. So then I start thinking about just
uninstalling the thing, so I can have a *reliable* status from the
'updater'.
Incidentally it's around the same time I check the mail and see this thread.
Uninstalling Amarok;
a13:/home/jon # rpm --test -e amarok
error: Failed dependencies:
libamarok.so.0 is needed by (installed) amarok-xine-1.4.7-37.4.i586
libamarok.so.0 is needed by (installed) amarok-yauap-1.4.7-37.4.i586
amarok = 1.4.7 is needed by (installed) amarok-xine-1.4.7-37.4.i586
amarok = 1.4.7 is needed by (installed) amarok-yauap-1.4.7-37.4.i586
...right. Of course there are deps, but 'doubles'?. Let's check them out;
a13:/home/jon # rpm --test -e amarok-yauap
a13:/home/jon # rpm --test -e amarok-xine
Hmmm nice - this should be fixed in a jiffy;
a13:/home/jon # rpm -e amarok-xine
a13:/home/jon # rpm -e amarok-yauap
error: Failed dependencies:
amarok_engine >= %version is needed by (installed)
amarok-1.4.7-37.4.i586
...what? Is that circular?
a13:/home/jon # rpm --test -e amarok
error: Failed dependencies:
libamarok.so.0 is needed by (installed) amarok-yauap-1.4.7-37.4.i586
amarok = 1.4.7 is needed by (installed) amarok-yauap-1.4.7-37.4.i586
OK, but now we aren't 'seeing double' at least.
a13:/home/jon # rpm -q --whatrequires amarok
amarok-yauap-1.4.7-37.4
a13:/home/jon # rpm -q --whatrequires amarok-yauap
no package requires amarok-yauap
...great! Let's just uninstall yauap, and be done with it;
a13:/home/jon # rpm -e amarok-yauap
error: Failed dependencies:
amarok_engine >= %version is needed by (installed)
amarok-1.4.7-37.4.i586
Not.
a13:/home/jon # rpm -q --whatprovides amarok_engine
amarok-yauap-1.4.7-37.4
Impressive:
amarok-yauap needs amarok_engine
amarok_engine is provided by amarok-yauap
Circular indeed!
a13:/home/jon # rpm -ql amarok-yauap
/opt/kde3/lib/kde3/libamarok_yauap-engine_plugin.la
/opt/kde3/lib/kde3/libamarok_yauap-engine_plugin.so
/opt/kde3/share/services/amarok_yauap-engine_plugin.desktop
/opt/kde3/share/services/amarok_yauap-mp3_install.desktop
...well "I don't need those";
a13:/home/jon # rpm -e --force amarok-yauap
rpm: only installation, upgrading, rmsource and rmspec may be forced
...right, what I meant to say was;
a13:/home/jon # rpm -e --nodeps amarok-yauap
Nice. No errors. Let's get on with it;
a13:/home/jon # rpm -e amarok
Done.
Now, just for good measure;
a13:/home/jon # rpm -qa | grep -i amarok
amarok-libvisual-1.4.7-37.4
a13:/home/jon # rpm -e amarok-libvisual
a13:/home/jon # rpm -qa | grep -i amarok
*really* done.
>> There is a bunch of stuff I would like to get rid of also. Including
>> kpowersave. When I see the dependency hell to remove something I don't
>> want,
>> I just sigh, shrug my shoulders, wonder how that could possibly be, and
>> thank
>> the lord that we now have these huge hard drives that will carry the
>> bloat.
>
> And... how many hundreds of megabytes will removing that package save? Is
> it worth the time and effort spent?
It's not so much the megabytes, rather it's about system consistency. I'm
aware that packaging errors happen, but these should be confronted and
solved rather than be 'swept under the rug'. And a blanket "just uninstall
the whole 'selection'" isn't really a proper solution IMHO.
I *want* multimedia, just not the specific application. Now, if that
application (or one of it's 'supporters') has a circular dependency that
prevents the 'updater' from performing *it's* duties, then that application
MUST DIE, and I'll consider the time killing it well spent.
MO
/jon
--
YMMV
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