I'll bite. Just this once. Jonathan Revusky wrote:
Just re-read it, and it re-confirmed my assesment of what happened, and my comments still stand.I think you should go read it too, Rickard. Your comments here do not seem to be based on any grasp of what really happened.Absolutely, go read it.
Anybody who reads the thread and was not born yesterday will see that the Velocity people started all the personal attacks, all the ad hominem and character assastination stuff against me specifically because they could not deal with me in legitimate debate. That you, Rickard, cannnot see through this, does not speak terribly well for you.
Okidoki.
I am specifically saying that this is where the thread starts. Somebody starts talking about comparing monetary value and I take the opportunity to point out that FreeMarker has the features they want. The discussion continues where a bunch of the Velocity people decide to debate "philosophically" the desirability of decimal numbers and such.What I meant was that it was a pretty good start of the rant, that went on and on and on and on.
I really think you ought to read the thread as well. I think that if you do, you will discover, to your chagrin, that my characterization of it is correct, and that, in fact, you owe me an apology.
I owe you zilch.
You went in there with a specific agenda (which you stated yourself after a while), and from that point of view you thought that "I have the right to say whatever I want, wherever I want, whenever I want, no matter what anyone else thinks", which is a point where we disagree and is the "attitude" that I objected to. I wouldn't want Struts people strutting around here like you did, and neither would I want WW folks ranting on the Struts lists. It's just bad taste.What an eloquant way to say "I have the right to say whatever I want, wherever I want, whenever I want, no matter what anyone else thinks".Hold on a second. I *never* stated on the Velocity list that Velocity was a "monumentally mediocre piece of work". I just stated it here. On the Velocity list, I restricted myself to pointing out that features (such as decimal support among other things) that Velocity users were lobbying for, were already present in FreeMarker. That has its obnoxious side, but it is completely fair comment and I do not believe that you can really maintain otherwise.
It's really fine up until the very last point. Your above reasoning would allow "us" to go to the Struts list to explain to them what a monumentally mediocre piece of work they have,
In any case, your basic stance is fundamentally nonsensical. If you wanted to know what my behavior would be like on this list if FreeMarker became an OS project, the thing to look at would be my behavior on the FreeMarker list, *not* on the Velocity list. Furthermore, your characterization of my behavior on the Velocity list (though utterly irrelevant anyway) is also inaccurate. The other people invariably commenced the ad hominem attacks on me because they could not deal with me in legitimate technical debate. This is not a matter of legitimate controversy. It is what a reading of the electronic record will show.And again, those who are interested in understanding this story should go read it. It's quite illuminating, especially since we seem to see completely different things.
BTW, in terms of my assessment of Velocity's quality as a piece of work, I pretty much completely pulled my punches there. I mean, just as one example, look at the way Velocity handles macro parameters. It passes them in as strings, that are reparsed and evaluated every time the parameter is referenced in the macro. I simply pointed out that features that people had been lobbying unsuccessfully for in Velocity for god-knows-how-long were available in FreeMarker.That's probably an interesting point, but this is the WW list. We don't really care.
which get the level of usage and attention that it does because it is a part of apache.org. Factually correct (one could argue), but oh so irrelevant.Well, as for "agreeing to disagree", with the overtones of political correctness and relativism, well... sorry... I don't just agree to disagree with you on this matter. I am stating that your characterization of what happened is FALSE. And I have backed up the assertion by pointing to the exchange in question that anybody can read.
I guess we will just have to agree on disagreeing on this point.
Or so you think. Most amusing.
Note that the reading of it is not particularly flattering to me. It shows my ability to push people's buttons for fun somewhat. BUT the behavior of the other people in the thread was typically far worse than mine. That much is pretty clear.
To you.
Which is not the point. The point is that you thought that it gave you the right to be a prick.In other words, if someone else is a prick you have the right to be a prick too. Interesting logic, and again I guess we will just have to agree on disagreeing on this point.
I was simply stating that they were not very well placed to complain.
But again, I repeat, that if people are asking about features on a Velocity list that are present in FreeMarker, I see *no* problem with telling them that the features they want are present in FreeMarker. If you think there's a moral or ethical problem with that, then we can "agree to disagree" on that, if you wish. OTOH, I would, as a matter of morbid curiosity, wonder what your logical grounds for that would be.This is completely off-topic for this list, but the basic principle is that I don't for one second try to claim that what I think and believe is what someone else should think. You, on the other hand, have no problems telling others what to think. Even when they explicitly say that they are not interested in what you have to say, you keep going. That's the difference between you and me, and where we'll have to agree on disagreeing. And, just to prove the point, in line with your previous behaviour, you won't agree with me on that, since you want me to think the same way you do.
Well, that you found whatever thing "disgusting" is your personal subjective state of mind which can't be debated.
I never said anything else.
Nonetheless, I can't help but think that there's an element of posturing there...
I would have to agree with you on that one.
<LOL>
Rickard, if you wanted to avoid the subject, you should not have brought it up in the first place!
I didn't. Someone asked, and I replied.
Do you think I'm the only guy around who doesn't like it when people spread disinformation about him behind his back? Other than that, do you think that *I* have any interest in showing up on a webwork list and arguing about some silly exchange that occured on the velocity list?
Obvisouly you do.
Hey, I've got plans and things to do... *you* are the guy who brought up the subject!
Nope. See above. If you check the archives you'll find what happened.
Moreover, you mischaracterize something completely, and I respond, quite politely, and have pointed people to the information they need to form their own judgment of what happened.
And, as above, I think that was a great suggestion.
Anyway, what aspect of this do you want to avoid? What I suppose you might like to avoid is somebody standing up to you and pointing out that you're wrong.I love it when people point out that I'm wrong. Doesn't happen very often, but when it does it's a joyous occasion.
Goodbye Jonathan.
/Rickard
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