Some thoughts:
For support, check http://www.atlassian.com/ and http://www.orionsupport.com
in addition to this list.
For Education, see http://www.orionsupport.com, although I will agree that
this pales in comparison to the Oracle training available.
PL/SQL is built into the DB, and therefore not as cross platform compatible
as Java servlets. If the client wants to run SQL Server, what do you do?
For consultancy, check http://www.atlassian.com/ again, or just ask around
on the list. We have consultants here. However, I will concede that Oracle
has a much larger consultant and marketing base.
On the 20:1 ratio, that is actually quite low. 3 years ago (prices have
probably gone up) 1 Oracle sever with 16 client licenses and Silver yearly
support was almost 50,000 USD. That works out to over 30:1.
In the end, it is an individual decision, but I think cost will be a major
factor for many smaller shops.
- Ernie
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Brynolf
Andersson
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 12:53 PM
To: Orion-Interest
Subject: RE: Some questions on Orion
Hi,
my thoughts to this matter:
* Orion has NO support, besides this list which is a good one
* Orion has NO Education
* PL/SQL is not a servlet, it is built into the DB and is widely used.
* Oracle has consultancy, marketing and so forth which is important for
customers (not developers).
So the 20:1 (haven't checked that) is nothing compared to what you get from
Oracle.
Kalle,
PS.
You could get the 1 million dollars if you follow the rules, it i s easy to
win if you make up your own rules.
DS.
>From: "elephantwalker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: Orion-Interest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Orion-Interest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: Some questions on Orion
>Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 01:27:17 -0700
>
>Paolo,
>
>true.
>
>But you can use perl scripts in orion. Pl/sql, I mean, give me a break.
>That's just an Oracle servlet that could just as well be some other sql
>servlet. Likewise, if you have good cmp/ejbs, there is no need for pl/sql.
>Other developer tools are also integrated with orion. I use Forte to create
>Orion ejb's all of the time.
>
>Struts and other tools are just as good for form building and handling.
>Forte can also be used to automate your form building process with orion.
>
>If you use the opensympony cache, you can beat the Oracle web cache...I
>tried for a year to get the $1 million from Oracle (Larry's famous $1
>million challenge), but they would not let us use orion and opensymphony
>cache!
>
>Orion has one of the best user and role manager api's built into the
>server.
>
>The price difference is 20:1. I mean, give me a break!
>
>Regards,
>
>the elephantwalker
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Paolo Ramasso
>Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 12:45 AM
>To: Orion-Interest
>Cc: BUCCI,STEFANO
>Subject: Re: Some questions on Orion
>
>
>ciao
>just to clarify yes it is true orion is cheaper than 9ias
>but oc4j (orion) is a component of our application server, we have pl/sql,
>perl,
>form (developer), tools for application integration (worlflow,
>trasformation and
>messaging), business intelligence, intelligent web cache, all these pieces
>are
>included in 9ias, so it depend on your needs to choose the right product.
>ciao
>Paolo
>
>elephantwalker wrote:
>
> > see below...
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > the elephantwalker
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Florian Werner
> > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 9:53 AM
> > To: Orion-Interest
> > Subject: Some questions on Orion
> >
> > Hi!
> >
> > I'm currently evaluating Orion for internal use and a customer.
> > Does Orion support/include:
> >
> > RMI over JRMP ?
> > any OODBMS ?
> > any ORMapping Tools ?
> > Realm-Integration like LDAP, RDBMS ?
> >
> > > j2ee support for rmi uses the over the wire protocol ormi.
> > > AFAIK, If you can create a schema for the databank (should be easily
>done
> > with OODBMS) this should work.
> > > Like most j2ee vendors, Orion has its own OR mapping tool
> > > EJBUserManager and DataSourceUserManager can be used directly with a
> > database
> > > and a new custom usermanager can easily use an LDAP server. There is
>also
> > a rolemanager api.
> >
> > Are the any IDEs supporting Orion (beside Kawa from Macromedia) ?
> >
> > > We use Sun's Forte debugging with Orion all of the time.
> >
> > Is ORACLE going to by Orion ?
> >
> > > Oracle has already licensed Orion as oc4j. So you can pay Oracle $30 k
>for
> > Orion, or pay Ironflare $1.5 k ;). oc4j is exactly the same as Orion.
> >
> > Regards
> > Florian Werner
>
>
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