Abundance seems to be a sociospiritual issue of ourkind. It seems that it can be found only within and inbetween. - spark 2012. 2. 26. 오전 4:43에 "Harrison Owen" <hho...@verizon.net>님이 작성:
> Bernd - No problem. Totally understand where you are coming from. At the > end of the day if you empower someone, by whatever means or degree - you > have, at least to some real extent, dis-empowered them. Or at the very > least, further encumbered their situation. All that said there are indeed > times when the ONLY thing you can do in the moment is hand out a fish. > Starving people, still less dead ones - don't learn very well... to fish or > anything else. However, if your actions end with fish distribution, or > almost as destructive, you do teach them to fish, but then hover over their > shoulders to make sure they do it RIGHT, well that is a different kettle of > fish (sorry about that J). Maybe there is a sequence here - Fish > Distributors, Fishing Teachers, and then "Gone fish 'in" - looking for > other fish to fry. Or something.**** > > ** ** > > Harrison **** > > ** ** > > Harrison Owen**** > > 7808 River Falls Dr.**** > > Potomac, MD 20854**** > > USA**** > > ** ** > > 189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)**** > > Camden, Maine 20854**** > > ** ** > > Phone 301-365-2093**** > > (summer) 207-763-3261**** > > ** ** > > www.openspaceworld.com**** > > www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)**** > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of > OSLIST Go to: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org**** > > ** ** > > *From:* oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org [mailto: > oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org] *On Behalf Of *Bernhard Weber > *Sent:* Saturday, February 25, 2012 1:24 AM > *To:* World wide Open Space Technology email list > *Subject:* Re: [OSList] Teach Them to Fish / A Note to My Friends**** > > ** ** > > Harrison, **** > > ** ** > > I have been living so long under conditions where the giver/beggar word > pairing is not only a metaphor (Beira is the capital of Sofala province in > Mozambique), so I had to deal with the problem also at a very practical > level and on base of that I want to say:**** > > ** ** > > I fully agree **** > > and would like to complete something that I wrote in my last posting in > answering what Artur has written. **** > > ** ** > > Yes the giver-beggar relation creates conditions for helplessness and > continued dependence and subservience. And yes, the dynamics is independent > from altruistic intentions.**** > > And I would complete, if you have a feeling for yourself and/or a > spiritual perspective this means, such kind of giving is also bad for the > giver, his/her mental costume and/or karma.**** > > ** ** > > But when I wrote in my last posting: sometimes you should also give the > fish (meaning that nobody who is starved can learn) isn't that a > contradiction?**** > > Yes it is, but**** > > a) contradictions as such are not necessarily bad. At least they are good > for triggering thinking processes if not for more (like being a basic > ingredient for self-organization, this also refers to the dissence-thread > of this groups)**** > > b) it all depends on the real process. If temporary dependence is a price > for helping out from helplessness so that further steps can follow, like > learning, like disappearing of the giver, teacher, blurring/integrating of > roles to teacherlearners and learnerteachers, I would say it is an > acceptable price**** > > ** ** > > Bernd**** > > ** ** > > On Feb 24, 2012, at 3:01 AM, Harrison Owen wrote:**** > > > > **** > > The secondary point may be less than obvious. When you are simply handed a > fish the conditions for learned helplessness and continued dependence, to > say nothing of subservience are created. Even with the best, most > altruistic intentions in the world, a fish handout has its problems. **** > > ** ** > > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org > To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > >
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