Sorry Michael Went before i'd finished.
In the last paragraph i wanted to say Nothing added to The OST part of the event and it was very clear which parts were social activities which we laid on as people had travelled from afar to the event and we wanted people to have the opportunity to meet beforehand in a good atmosphere and to be able to see the centre of london as well as Stoke Newington. Best Phelim x ________________________________ I generally pick up emails only at the beginning and end of the working day. I am currently aiming to respond the following day. If it is urgent please call me on 07956 187298. _____________________________________ www.improbable.co.uk @openspacer On 23 Oct 2012, at 17:45, Phelim McDermott <phe...@mac.com> wrote: > Some thoughts Michael, > > > On 23 Oct 2012, at 15:43, Michael Herman <mich...@michaelherman.com> wrote: > >> If the experience is one of desiring a simpler execution of the basic >> practice, then the solution is to offer to host an wosonos for yourself. > > Knowing what it is like on the UK scene I would say the solution is to offer > an osonos now that WOSonOS has happened. This is certainly more possible > after this years event. I doubt it would have been an immediately sustainable > event or as attended if we hadn't been able to publicise it as a world event. > Most of our support and income actually came from international streams. As > it is we have not covered our costs by a considerable amount. If it had been > an OSonOS I do not believe we w2ould have had the international; diversity we > had. > >> If, however, you're from the UK, for instance, and the UK has just hosted, >> that means you don't really have a shot at it for at least a few years. > > I think you now have a much better shot at running a successful OSonOS after > what we did and I think there has been talk about this in sessions about the > UK community. > >> Further, if the process of choosing a host/location looks like it's been >> pre-determined (which it often does, based on past comments by various >> participants), then even if somebody like Paul was willing to host and the >> community was willing to stay in the UK for another year, he wouldn't feel >> like he had access to the process anyway. > > Everyone has access to the process of opening some space. If he wants he > could communicate with the people who had a UK OS session and talked about > further UK events. > >> Finally, if the pre-determined processing of the decision, or >> pre-conversations, about the next invitation happen someplace other than in >> the event, newcomers like Paul are right to say they are excluded. > > It was made very clear at the event that if people were considering hosting > they would be supported to do so. The "predetermined" element or eperception > could be that if you are thinking of doing it a TWO YEAR prep time is > definitely helpful and so it could look like people who have been thinking > about it for a while know something you don't. > >> With all these conditions present, it's quite possible that Thomas' three >> ways of using Two Feet only make the situation worse. When someone comes to >> the conclusion that they are stuck on the outside of the group and the best >> we can say is "Leave if you like," that would seem a recipe for a bad >> feeling -- especially once someone has made some investment to get to this >> event and might feel stuck there for the two days, trying to figure it out. > > No one has said leave if you like in fact I think people have encouraged Paul > to engage in a conversation about his thoughts and I continue to do so. > Please encourage him to join this discussion here via linkedin and facebook > where he has been posting his blogs. > > During the process of putting together WOSonOS 2012 we were very open in > making a number of invitations to be involved in helping us putting the event > on. We held two, two day open space events which the UK OS community were > invited to. During that process which definitely was not easy some people > joined us and supported us.. others fell away. I also communicated to Paul > before the event about how we were organising things and offered to meet him. > That didn't happen. > >> I'm not trying to put words in Paul's mouth or speak for him... I'm just >> saying that it's possible that the way we invite and welcome and include >> people in wosonos conversations, including the ones about where the next >> event(s) might be held, might be ripe for review. As we go along, and get >> deeper in our own community practice and accumulate artifacts and habits, we >> start to look a lot like a traditional organization -- in the sense that we >> have an interest in stability, continuation, dependability, and such -- even >> as we are supposedly all about emergence and making it up as we go. > > Likewise I'm not sure what Paul is thinking either. I have invited him to > join us on this list as I think Artur did as well. I do know that Paul was > interested in opening the space for WOSonOS in his own style which is to do > it in 2 and a half minutes. So I imagine he would think my introduction went > on a bit! (I must do some work on that). > >> >> Like look at our watch midway through briefing the principle that says >> "whenever it happens is the right time," the more habituated we become in >> our gathering practice, the more we depend on and add to how we do wosonos >> -- (even the W that got added a few years ago, for instance, creates >> scarcity by giving one event some "specialness" above all others that year) >> -- the more we add to our wosonos convening manual, beyond what's in the >> user's guide, the more we are potentially perceived as welcomers who aren't >> being very welcoming. > > I mentioned in my opening the importance of not seeing an OST event as > something special and that "Wherever it happens is the right place" is a > useful reminder of this to me about this. > >> What if we didn't have any more Wosonos events, for instance, what if we >> just counted ALL osonos events as equal. We wouldn't necessarily celebrate >> the "20th anniversary" but could celebrate the 20th osonos and the 30th and >> 100th... without giving the one somehow decended from Harrison's original 4 >> events at dulles airport any more importance than what lisa does in san >> francisco, john does in haiti, or we've done here in chicago in the past? >> If all osonos events were allowed to be held as equal, then anyone could put >> one on the map and the only side conversations would be among old friends >> deciding where they might be able to meet up. And note, too, that there's >> nothing that says that if someone is hosting in australia, i can't host an >> full and equal peer gathering at the very same time, in chicago. neither >> event needs special W-ing, and anyone can choose between either gathering, >> and be surprised by who shows up, from how far or near. > This was suggested by Paul at WOSonOS as one less thing to do. That we > perhaps shouldn't do WOSonOS again. A part of me thinks.. It would certainly > save a lot of work and stress. Another part says thats a bit like saying > maybe it would be better if we didn't have any more parties! Maybe when it's > over its over. > >> These are things I've thought about for many years, and found few ripe >> openings to discuss, in part cuz I've not been able to attend osonos >> anywhere for some years. So I can appreciate how somebody newer to the mix >> might feel frustrated having made an investment to join and then come to the >> conclusion that we're as deep in our habits and rituals as any other >> exclusive organization. More frustrating because we always seem to say >> otherwise. Having tried at times from "within" to have these conversations, >> I can appreciate how hard it would feel from apparently "the outside." > > Sometimes people are on the outside because they feel excluded and sometimes > they enjoy "the outsider" role. It has some useful things to say. This is an > interesting topic to discuss in relation to the Law of Two Feet. > >> >> All of which makes me wonder how many "osonos" events we've really had. >> What if we did count them up and start numbering the as we go forward, as >> ALL having been descended from the HHO-convened "originals." And what if we >> agreed that, in the main, the clearly visible and open heart of any osonos >> was a chunk of space and time where it ran "by the book" and if you don't >> see it in the user's guide, then you don't see it in the room, either? >> Wouldn't have to be the whole event, but there could be a distinction >> between "this is what we do because we're excited, creative people and this >> is what we do because it's the heart of open space practice." > > In this discussion it would really help me if people were really clear about > when they are making generalised suggestions or clear criticisms of WOSonOS > 2012. (I'm not sure here if this is directed at our event. ) As those who > weren't there could think WOSonOS 2012 twelve was an event which had lots of > extraneous stuff added to the Open space part of the event. For those not > there I want to make it very clear. There was nothing at the event which is > not in the handbook perhaps the wall made of scotch/sellotape as we know this > was a solution to the site, the principles being in more than one language > and the break out spaces being animal pictures as we couldn't stick things on > the floor. > >> >> >> What if....? > > Yep what if? > > >> Michael >> >> >> -- >> >> Michael Herman >> Michael Herman Associates >> 312-280-7838 (mobile) >> >> http://MichaelHerman.com >> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 3:11 AM, Thomas Herrmann >> <tho...@openspaceconsulting.com> wrote: >>> I think the Law is about action too. You can act in three ways >>> >>> 1. Mental movement (try to change yourself, focus and be fully >>> present, maybe you are missing something important here) – thanks Jan-Erik >>> for this perspective during NOSonOS in august! >>> >>> 2. “Intervention” into what you don’t enjoy, for example if you find >>> the break out group too large – say it! >>> >>> 3. Leave and go somewhere else. >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Thomas Herrmann >>> >>> >>> >>> Från: oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org >>> [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org] För Chris Corrigan >>> Skickat: den 23 oktober 2012 07:13 >>> Till: World wide Open Space Technology email list >>> Kopia: World wide Open Space Technology email list >>> Ämne: Re: [OSList] Peggy plus OST Linkedin Comment >>> >>> >>> >>> Koos...for me the law of two feet is about passion and responsibility. If >>> you care about something, take care of it. >>> >>> >>> >>> Paul may have felt that he was "taking care of it" when he produced his >>> critiques of the event in London. Possibly. But my experience is that many >>> people are comfortable just being in their passion about something - >>> sometimes just ranting - and fail to join in, support, improve, help out or >>> otherwise make a responsibility based offering to the situation at hand. >>> While i appreciate criticism and am perfectly capable of wrestling with >>> ideas - and in this case I even pointed out that there is much merit in >>> Paul's observations - I nevertheless would invite consideration of the fact >>> that if someone is sitting through an open space event and not offering >>> responsibility, that the criticism has the feeling of being sniping from >>> the sidelines while failing to take up the invitation at hand and it's hard >>> to work with that. That is all. >>> >>> >>> >>> A some level, love it or leave is also always an option, but that isn't >>> what I'm talking about here. I'm looking for a more nuanced response from >>> a practitioner that is clearly very familiar with the dynamics of Open >>> Space and self organizati >>> > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org > To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
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